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Thread: Questions - Loading the 45-70

  1. #1

    Default Questions - Loading the 45-70

    I have a Marlin 1895 GG in 45-70 and I want to start rolling my own ammo for it. I plan to use the rifle as a close range moose and bear gun. I have a box of Oregon Trail laser cast 405 gr FP BT and new RP brass. I'm curious as to which powder should I start with? H4831? IMR 4198? IMR 3031? Also would I see a significant performance increase with Oregon Trails true shot ammo over the standard laser cast?

  2. #2

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    With that bullet, I suggest starting with 4198, either IMR or Hodgdon's.

    That powder is also good with lighter weight jacketed bullets, and with moderate loads with bullets up to 400 grains.

    IMR 3031 does very well with heavier jacketed bullets and more robust loads, in my experience.

    H 4831 is too slow for the 45/70, in my opinion.

  3. #3
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    Default 45-70

    The other load that I like is the Oregon Trails 430GC. I am using 43.5 grains of IMR 4198. Good groups in my guide gun.

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    Member Float Pilot's Avatar
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    My youngest son and my neighbor shoot Marlin guide guns, I shoot Winchesters.

    We bought a bulk load of Remington 405 grain jacketed soft points.

    We then play around with a few loads to try something that was warm but not overly hot in their Marlins.

    The load we settled on for their rifles is:

    Rem 405 gr JSP
    CCI-200 primer
    R-P brass
    50.0 Grains of IMR 3031
    COL of 2.545 so it feeds nice in the Marlins
    Lee Factory crimp

    From the short guide gun barrel

    1,656 fps
    1,641 fps
    1,660 fps
    1,649 fps
    1,652 fps

    Groups at 100 yards 1.00 inch average shooting three groups.


    We also tried 54.0 grains of IMR 4064 which got us into the high 1,700s but the group was a little bigger.

    44. 0 grains of Reloader #7 gave us a consistant 1,770 fps but it seemed like we were getting some high pressure signs. That load actually works great in my Browning Model 86 but I load it a little longer so it shows less pressure.

    42.0 grains of Reloader #7 and a CCI-250 mag primer loaded to a COL of 2.520 gave us 1,700 fps average and a 1.5 inch group.
    Floatplane,Tailwheel and Firearms Instructor- Dragonfly Aero
    Experimental Hand-Loader, NRA Life Member
    http://site.dragonflyaero.com

  5. #5

    Thumbs up H322

    Load 54 grains of H322 under a 405 grain Kodiak bonded core bullet or a 395 grain Belt Mountain "Punch Solid".

  6. #6

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    I looked at Oregon Trails load data today for their 405 gr FT BT and it shows a max load of 38.5 gr. of IMR 3031 with a velocity of 1375 out of a 24" WLR. I'm using IMR 3031 as an example because that's the powder I purchased today. I know I won't get 1375 fps out of my GG but this load seems somewhat mild compared to JSP and other cast loads. I'm curious as to why this is? How does the design of a bullet (all being the same weight) affect it's desired powder charge?

    Use the example above and compare it to this load, I couldn't find another cast load with 3031 so this one will have to do until I find one. There are plenty of throttled JSP data.

    405gr Lyman cast bullet #457193 IMR-4198 40.5 1717fps
    Remarks: max load; 27,500 cup

    Also here's the max load for the Oregon Trail 405 according to Oregon Trail with IMR-4198

    405gr Flat Point IMR-4198 31.0 1,515 fps
    Remarks: maximum load


    Also why does load data show JSP's can be throttled to much higher velocity than cast bullets? I am under the impression that cast bullets are the ticket in this caliber, so why should I choose a JSP over a cast bullet? Am I missing something?

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    Member Alangaq's Avatar
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    Reloader #7. I have worked up loads with 420 grain hard cast (RCBS 45-405 mould) and safely passed the 2000 fps mark out of my guide gun (with published data) although the recoil is rather harsh.

    I have since backed my load down to 1800 fps using the same bullets and RL #7
    “You’ve gotten soft. You’re like one of those police dogs who’s released in to the wild and gets eaten by a deer or something.” Bill McNeal of News Radio

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    Member pinehavensredrocket's Avatar
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    i load for the guide gun, 86 winchester, and 1895 "cowboy", finding them very strong and capable of heavy handloads. one of my favorites is a hardcast 350gr gs over 57gr h4895. this load chronographs about 1915-2012 depending on barrel. this is a very accurate load that prints sub inch in the marlin (scope) to 1 1/2" in the winchester (lyman 38 reciever sight) i have killed elk with this load (but have never recovered the bullets) and recommend it without reservation.

    **this is not a "high pressure" load, but as in all reloading----watch for pressure signs and be responsible. bullet seating will raise or lower pressure, mine are crimped in the forward groove.

    happy trails.
    jh

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    Member AKRoadkill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alangaq View Post
    Reloader #7. I have worked up loads with 420 grain hard cast (RCBS 45-405 mould) and safely passed the 2000 fps mark out of my guide gun (with published data) although the recoil is rather harsh.

    I have since backed my load down to 1800 fps using the same bullets and RL #7
    x2 for Reloder 7. I load 44 .5 grains behind a 440 gr Cast Performance Hard Cast and get right around 1875 fps. "the recoil is rather harsh" might be somewhat of an understatement, though.

  10. #10
    Member Alangaq's Avatar
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    yea AKRoadkill, I didnt want to sound like the pansy that I am! when you start throwing 400 grains of lead out of a little guide gun above 1600 fps it starts to get your attention. Above 2000 fps and its painfull, really painfull in my opinion. Like I said, I backed her down to around 1800 fps and that should be plenty of thump for my purpose.
    “You’ve gotten soft. You’re like one of those police dogs who’s released in to the wild and gets eaten by a deer or something.” Bill McNeal of News Radio

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    Member 454casull's Avatar
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    Smile Amen on painful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alangaq View Post
    yea AKRoadkill, I didnt want to sound like the pansy that I am! when you start throwing 400 grains of lead out of a little guide gun above 1600 fps it starts to get your attention. Above 2000 fps and its painfull, really painfull in my opinion. Like I said, I backed her down to around 1800 fps and that should be plenty of thump for my purpose.
    I have 400 grain Performance Cast (different than Cast Performance) bullets going just under 2000 fps out of my 22 inch Marlin 1895M. The recoil is substantial. Another great recipe I have in my recipe book is a 405 grain Kodiak pushed along at around 1900 fps with 52.0 grains of H322 accompanied with Starline brass and WLR primers.

  12. #12
    Member pinehavensredrocket's Avatar
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    i just tested a "new" load that prints well.......using 44 gr of imr4198 with a 350gr hardcast gc bullet, three shots group 1.4" @ 100yd with open sights. this is with the winchester 1886 and the lyman 38 copy sight by peabody.

    this combination feeds like sardines through a meatgrinder. it is brisk, but not punishing, and doesn't "setback" my bullets! this cronographs 1939-1945 (very consistant).

    i have been shooting the 350's over the 400-450's because they print higher without alot of sight adjustment. this is an advantage with open sights. penetration is very good, and barrel cleaning a breeze without leading.

    happy trails.
    jh

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    Member jdb3's Avatar
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    For years I have used the 400 grain Speer at around 1700 fps using 50 grains of IMR 3031. A very accurate load and will do anything you really need. Jim

  14. #14
    Member SusitnaAk's Avatar
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    +1, jdb3 400 gr.n Speer 50gr.s 3031

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