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Thread: 500yd accuracy, scope suggestions please??

  1. #1
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    Default 500yd accuracy, scope suggestions please??

    First let me say that I am fully aware that kind of range is totally dependant on the shooter first.

    I am really leaning towards the Kimber Montana M84 in .308 so now I am looking for a suitable scope to top it with.
    Have never used a scope with any kind of reticle or mil system but would like to get opinions on those.

    Few things that I want are point of aim out to 500, give or take.
    Lightweight as possible for this setup
    and of course durability.

    Thanks
    Jason

  2. #2
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    Don't know your budget but I just finished working up a load for a friends rifle that had a Burris 3-9x40 FFll w/Ballisti-Plex. VERY nice scope!

    til later

  3. #3
    Moderator Paul H's Avatar
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    If you want to accurately place shots in the field out to 500 yds, I highly recomend a scope with target turrets. To reliabley place shots way out there you need a laser range finder, you need to find out the trajectory of your load, you need to develop a drop chart, and then you need to practice.

    There is something to be said for the bullet landing exactly where you are holding the crosshairs, and that's what target turrets allow. Even if you go to some sort of ranging reticle, you will need the laser range finder and a drop chart developed for your loads. Past 400 yds even the flat shooting rounds start dropping fast enough that misjudging range by 50 yds will result in a wound or a miss.

    I'd suggest either a leupold VX-III 6X42 or a 3.5-10X40, and have an elevation target turret fit. I'm partial to fixed scopes on hunting rifles, as they can't be set incorectly.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul H View Post
    If you want to accurately place shots in the field out to 500 yds, I highly recomend a scope with target turrets. To reliabley place shots way out there you need a laser range finder, you need to find out the trajectory of your load, you need to develop a drop chart, and then you need to practice.

    There is something to be said for the bullet landing exactly where you are holding the crosshairs, and that's what target turrets allow. Even if you go to some sort of ranging reticle, you will need the laser range finder and a drop chart developed for your loads. Past 400 yds even the flat shooting rounds start dropping fast enough that misjudging range by 50 yds will result in a wound or a miss.

    I'd suggest either a leupold VX-III 6X42 or a 3.5-10X40, and have an elevation target turret fit. I'm partial to fixed scopes on hunting rifles, as they can't be set incorectly.
    I totally agree. Cant go wrong with a leupold in the VXIII range. Also, the Leupold custom shop can provide a turret indexed to your gun, but you'll have to shoot it to verify. Another idea to concider is the boone and crockett reticle. It comes with dialing instructions and its been real accurate on my .338.

    good luck with your choice.

  5. #5

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    i am a big fan of the nikon monarch scopes. they also have the BDC recticle i have found works real well especially because it was centered around the .308 so it should be real close with your weapon.

  6. #6
    Member danattherock's Avatar
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    Burris Black Diamond. Lap the rings. Got one on a 300 Weatherby and an Armalite AR-50 (BMG) and can not say enough good things about these scopes. Plenty of internal elevation for 500 yards, crystal clear, and built like a brick sh*t house. Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service as well.
    The two loudest sounds known to man: a gun that goes bang when it is supposed to go click and a gun that goes click when it is supposed to go bang.

  7. #7

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    500 yds really isn't all that far for modern rifles, glass and ammo. Most rifles these day are capabale of MOA accuracy with the right load which makes it easily a 500 yd gun with a steady hold. A little fine tuning may get you to 1/2 MOA.

    I think the Monarch is a great scope, but I personally would shy away from any BDC because you can have such a variety of bullet performances in any particular cartridge. In the 308, factory loads for the 150, 165 and 180 bullets can easily differ by 200 fps MV and 10 inches of drop at 500 yds, depending on BC and MV.

    You have a couple of choices as has been mentioned... either dialing in your range drop or holding on with a graduated reticle, usually with 1 or 2 MOA hashes or dots. A 308 zeroed at 200 yds will drop anywhere from 45 to 55 inches at 500 yds (about 10 MOA give or take, 5 inches per MOA at 500 yds). If you had a 2 MOA reticle like I do, for a 50 inch drop you would hold on the fith cross hatch down. I personally would prefer to dial it in, but for this you need a very accurate repeatable scope. It's good to know, understand and have both capabilities, because there may be times you wont have time to dial it in. There are some outstanding long range hunters who hold on there reticle at over 1000 yds.

    My personal recomendation for out to 500 yd shooting would be Bushnell 4200 with windage and elevation turrets. There are better scopes but that will get the job done to 500 yds.

    You will need to know your load ballistics and verify it on the range with a chronograph at various ranges. Things like shot angle, elevation and bar pressure are a factor with long range shooting but not real critical inside 500 yds. Once you've accurately determined your load ballistics, you need to make some drop charts for every 25 yds past 300. And you will need and accurate lazer range finder and know how to determine range using your reticle as a backup. A pronghorn antelope with a 16 inch deep body, top of back to bottom of chest, will fill 4 cross hatches of my 2 MOA reticle at 200 yds. or about 1 1/2 at 500 yds.

    Good hunting and get'r done

  8. #8

    Default Scopes

    I just recently put a VX3 4.5x14x40 30mm tube long range on my 300 saum and I love it. In fact I just got my bullet compensting turret in the mail today from the Leupold custom shop. I will be putting it on the scope/gun tonight and taking it to the range tomorrow or this weekend to play with. I told Leupold I would like it for a 180 TTSX going 2950 fps at 5000ft and 45 degrees. Can't wait to go find some longer distance targets to shoot and practice on. I had the Burris 3x9x42 with balistic plex on the gun. It is an ok scope but quiet a bit heavier and not as bright.

    Phil in Anchorage

  9. #9
    Member Timber Smith's Avatar
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    Leupies are my preference, hands down for a lightweight scope on a lightweight hunting rifle. I have mostly VXIIIs on hunting rifles with regular and wide duplex, varmint and BC reticles. On my dedicated mountain rigs I have FXIIIs 6x42 with LRD, prefer fixed for hard scrambling. Works pretty good for me. Don't like turrets on a backpacking rig. Lots of long range work (my definition of LR is over 500m) definitely get turrets (elevation turret at least). Really depends on your intended use.


    "AND YE SHALL KNOW THE TRUTH AND THE TRUTH SHALL MAKE YOU FREE."

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  10. #10
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    Default Tactical scope

    SWFA carries the super sniper scopes.... mil-dot in 10, 16, and 20 power.... turrets and parallax knobs... best bang for the buck... durable and a good value.

  11. #11
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    Default 500 Yard Accuracy

    The Leupold Vari-X II 6.5 X 20 X 40mm (with target knobs) is a very good entry level scope. Entry level meaning, if you don't want to spend a ton of $$$, yet still desire 500 to 1000 yard accuracy! Its in the $450ish range and it tracks very well. If you need lower power look at the 4.5 X 14 X 40mm (with target knobs). The scopes mentioned by others here have reputations for quality also.
    One of the best ways to accurately get out to 500 yards (and beyond) is to have a quality scope with repeatable clicks, and a quality ballistic program (exbal, load from a Disk, etc.) and learning how to "Dial" in the elevation and shoot at 12 X 12 inch or 18 X 18 inch sq. steel gongs, to "Confirm" your shots at the ranges you desire to shoot, first on the bench, and then in field positions.
    Here is information on Rifle Scope Qualities...

    http://www.rifle-accuracy-reports.com/Riflescope.html

    Russell

  12. #12

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    I say its turrets or nothing if you really intend to shoot to 500 yards with true accuracy. The Leupies are the best bet, as was mentioned a favorite of mine is the VX-III 3.5-10x40 and you can mail it to Leupold and for like $120 they will install the target and elevation turrets in either target or M series turrets. Once you do the math and some confirming, print yourself up a liitle card with your elevation and windage adjustments per MOA and have it laminated, then tape it to your stock. I had this very set up on my Kimber Montana and it does exactly what its supposed to do. Of course the Leica CRF 1200 helps a bunch, when you get instant accurate ranging to your target. If you go to this link I think its the 49th post, theres a pic of my Kimber with the Turreted Leupy, and I only ran an elevation turret on mine, compared to many other set ups, its a very trim and lightweight set up for a lightweight rifle.

    http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/...=kimber&page=3

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by plentycoupe View Post
    Few things that I want are point of aim out to 500, give or take.
    Lightweight as possible for this setup
    and of course durability.

    Thanks
    Jason
    Assuming you've got the range down pat and know the trajectory with your particular sight-in, BDCs and turret adjustments simply aren't necessary. Dandy tools, but only if they're useful to you and come in a scope that meets your other needs.

    My two scopes for longrange big game shooting, as opposed to long range varmint shooting, have one thing in common- Very fine crosshairs relative to your "view" through the scope or relative magnification. They just help with precise bullet placement.

    As a measure of reliability, both scopes are older than dirt. The most compact and potentially useful to you is a 35-year old Leupold 3x9 with a Lee custom 1" dot reticle on cobweb thin crosshairs. Just about worthless for close range in low light, but really ideal for long shots at big game. Longest measured shots on deer with witnesses using that scope (super accurate 7mm Rem Mag) were one shot kills on two deer standing together at 460 yards. And both were head shots. I wouldn't even talk about them or claim them if a laser range finder wasn't in use and if there weren't two witnesses. Good rest, 1/2 MOA rifle, no air movement. Would have taken body shots if they weren't standing in tall grass, but sometimes you take what you can get.

    The second scope is a 25-year old Redfield 6x18 scope. It's long and bulky, but it's 1-minute crosshair may be even better than the custom dot in the Leupy. Can't claim any long headshots with this one, but it's enabled lots of 400+ yard body shots on deer.

    Can't help you with 500 yards, because I've just never tried a shot that far on big game.

  14. #14

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    You guys are hurting my feelings.

    I'm not going to come out and say that no one should take a 500 yard shot at a big game animal. Obviously you guys that have grown up in the open range and hunt there do it. However to someone who has killed 90% of his gun killed deer with a 1894 Marlin 44mag, 500 yards ain't in the same county. There have been numerous coyotes that have died that were 300 yards or so as a result of me yanking the trigger on my 243. However in those cases if you throw enough lead at them then they are bound to run into a bullet every now and again. Its the law of averages and even I guess right once in a while.

    If it were me I'd have to cut that distance in half in order feel confident of a clean kill. I know what your thinking, by the time I cut the distance in half the critter would have beat feet over the next ridge. Well the end result would be the same as me taking a 500 yard shot and that is that I'd be eatin the old crap in the bottom of the freezer again anyway cuz I'm coming home empty handed.

    My 243 shoots right on the money at 100 yards on a calm day (a rare thing) yet on a windy day I'll have to shoot at least a foot into the wind at a couple hundred yards in order to knock over a standing coyote. That gets to be a real guessing game somtimes. I can't imagine doubling that distance and more. A 165 grain Hornady softpoint with a ballistic coefficient of .400 zipping along at 3200fps (300 win mag) is going to be blown off course nearly 2 feet by a mere 10 mph cross wind at 500 yards and almost 4 feet in a 20 mph cross wind. The wind may be blowing 10 mph where you're standing but a hundred yards down range it might be blowing 40. Yup I'm thinking to much.....but it all matters.

    Then again you'll always miss 100% of the shots you don't take. Who knows!

    Think I'll go get some 2 year old freezer burnt loins out of the bottom of the freezer and throw em in the crock pot with a couple of gallons of mushroom soup for supper!

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by elmerkeithclone View Post
    You guys are hurting my feelings.
    I know where you're coming from. Consider that even though I have the gear, experience and know how to (or better yet, WHEN NOT TO) take long shots, I have shot virtually all my game in the last 5 years using traditional muzzleloaders inside 50 yards. For me the long shooting is more like sniping, and entertaining as it can be, it's no longer the type of hunting that pushes my buttons. I still do a whale of a lot of prairie dog shooting at long range in the lower 48 each year, sometimes getting lucky and poking one or two past 500 yards. But that's just not the same deal at all.

  16. #16
    Moderator Paul H's Avatar
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    I have no desire to seek out 5, 6 or even 700 yd shots. But if I have skills, equipment and have practiced out to those ranges, it won't hurt me when doing my best to get game inside 200 yds.

    The fact is todays rifles, optics, bullets, rangefinders, drop charts and practice allow one to make consistant shots on game at ranges that most consider not possible. Considering what I see at the 100 yd line at the range I can understand that sentiment, as there are sadly many people that have no business taking shots on game out to even 200 yds.

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