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Thread: Chipping in For Gas VS Chartering

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    Member chico99645's Avatar
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    Default Chipping in For Gas VS Chartering

    Had a friend as me how do I plan on paying for gas since I upgraded my boat size and fuel cost. I said, well if friends want to go fishing with me, they will have to chip in for fuel. He stated that I would need a charters License for this since I am accepting money for taking someone fishing. I think that is total bull----. Its not like I am advertising for customers, I see it as being a responsible person of not expecting something for free and being taken advantage of. I feel it is my choice to accept or decline money for fuel from a friend or someone you take fishing or out for a boat ride. Does anyone know the legal answer to this question?

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    Member fishNphysician's Avatar
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    Cost sharing is totally legal.

    A dollar transaction for services provided is NOT! That's the point at which it becomes "guiding" or "chartering".
    "Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." Zane Grey
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    Member akriverrat's Avatar
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    Default no profit

    then no problem! you will have more of a problem getting most people to chip in then you will any legal issues.

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    Default Sharing Costs

    Your friend might be remembering back when it was that way. The Coast Guard finally relaxed their rules to be more in line with the FAA's years ago (15 maybe - ?). Back then, you could help out your aviator friend with gas but not your boating buddy. It's now legal to share cost of operating the boat with your buddies. Common sense and reason finally prevailed!

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    Not much of a "friend" if he doesn't want to help out, and starts quoting the law as an excuse.

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    Member Barlinator's Avatar
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    Fish Witch. If you were to do a bit of research you would find that the Coast Guard has not relaxed their interpretation of the law. While it may seem a bit silly, if there is any consideration provided it is considered passenger for hire and a license is required. I have never heard of anyone being prosecuted for accepting some gas money, but it is a consideration.

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    Just have him pay for the fuel at the fuel dock, or pay for the truck to get you down there and back. I've never found someone that wasn't willing to help with expenses.

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    Member Dirtofak's Avatar
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    The first ride is free (except if they are helping with my cabin). Anyone that expects a free ride when you are making payments, making repairs, paying registration etc..... only gets one chance. Friends do not take advantage of friends.

    After that they can fish from the shore. I only have this problem once.

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    Member CanCanCase's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barlinator View Post
    Fish Witch. If you were to do a bit of research you would find that the Coast Guard has not relaxed their interpretation of the law. While it may seem a bit silly, if there is any consideration provided it is considered passenger for hire and a license is required. I have never heard of anyone being prosecuted for accepting some gas money, but it is a consideration.
    Just prior to the switch from DOT to DHS, the USCG DID issue an order from DC which clarified their position. The actual laws have not been relaxed, but a letter from the higher-ups has helped a lot. The determining factors are twofold:
    1) If you REQUIRE payment and PROMISE a service (ie: "hey, Gimme money and I'll take you out on the boat") then you've met the definition of charter. If, instead you PROMISE a service, and the payment is given VOLUNTARILY, you're not technically chartering.
    2) If the payment you receive EXCEEDS the actual costs incurred, there's a problem. For example, if we burn 100 gallons of fuel on a family trip, but my buddy came along and brought all the food, cooked the meals, and paid for a full tank of fuel (250 gallons), then I'm receiving compensation beyond the actual expenses, and the USCG seems to have a problem with that.

    Honestly, the USCG has better things to argue about than whether or not your fuel cost $5 or $10. You're much more likely to run into trouble with the State. They've got some very vague requirements for guides and guide businesses to try to prevent "self guided" chartering. There are quite a few loop holes, but again, I don't think AST will say much if a few friends are out fishing for a day ON A PRIVATE BOAT. I run into the opposite problem... my boat has the green/yellow stickers permanently displayed, so when I'm out just for fun, AST always assumes I'm on charter and has the authority to board and inspect my logbook, catch, etc.

    -Case
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    Member Xanfly's Avatar
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    I fill up the Boat, Friends fill up the truck and bring refreshments. Money never changes hands. And if you don't pitch in you probably don't get asked to go again unless I know the reason you didn't chip in. I don't have a big boat so if I have to pay the whole bill I would rather bring the Family along and have all the limits in my freezer.

    Fortunately I have a hard time just trying to pay my own share with the friends I usually take. They would pay for everything if I let them.

    And when I go out on the rivers with friends who have a river boat I am the same way.

    Anybody who has any common sense knows how expensive a boat is. I didn't buy my boat expecting any one to help me pay for anything and I take my Family out most of the time, but every little bit helps.

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    Member chico99645's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the input and legal reference. I have been absolutely amazed on how many people want to be your friend and want to go fishing with you when you get a new boat. Basically, I will treat it the same way as lending my vehicle to a friend or relative. If you borrow or use it and don't offer to help after the trip is done by paying for fuel, cleaning the boat, slitting bait cost, loosing tackle, they you can fish from the bank next time. There are a few friends or relatives that can't afford to help out that I will still take due to the fact that what they lack in money, they make up for in real need for a break and need the fish.They always find a way to pay back by really helping out with other things that are not fishing related like looking out for my family when I am at work on the slope. Thanks again for all the input.

    Mark
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    Member chico99645's Avatar
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    Xanfly,

    I didn't buy my boat with the intention to have other people pay my fuel, I told my friend along with several others whom work at my work place whom have been coming out of the wood work wanting me to take them fishing. I just want them to realize that I am not a free charter for their pleasure. These are all people whom I normally don't fish or do anything with away from work. When I am home enjoying the Great Alaskan Outdoors, I am normally with my family also and take out a few close friend or family. I do give alot of fish away though. I can only eat so much.

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    Member greythorn3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chico99645 View Post
    Had a friend as me how do I plan on paying for gas since I upgraded my boat size and fuel cost. I said, well if friends want to go fishing with me, they will have to chip in for fuel. He stated that I would need a charters License for this since I am accepting money for taking someone fishing. I think that is total bull----. Its not like I am advertising for customers, I see it as being a responsible person of not expecting something for free and being taken advantage of. I feel it is my choice to accept or decline money for fuel from a friend or someone you take fishing or out for a boat ride. Does anyone know the legal answer to this question?
    tell taht friend to go get a charter, and get a new friend.. he is a real jerk
    Semper Fi!

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    Moderator Paul H's Avatar
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    I agree with the sentiment that I don't demand friends split the cost on fuel, but if they don't chip in, they don't get invited back.

    The funny thing is, those that have boats are generally happy to be generous with fuel costs, as they understand all the other expenses and work that goes into running a boat.

    One of my best fishing trips this summer was with a couple of co-workers. It wasn't because they were more than willing to split the opperating costs, its because they were pleasant to be out on the water with.

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    Member alaskachuck's Avatar
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    I used to have a sign in my boat. It said..... This boat does not run on thanks That is when gas was only 1.80 a gallon and i only used around 11 gallons an hours
    Grandkids, Making big tough guys hearts melt at first sight

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    Member Xanfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chico99645 View Post
    Xanfly,

    I didn't buy my boat with the intention to have other people pay my fuel, I told my friend along with several others whom work at my work place whom have been coming out of the wood work wanting me to take them fishing. I just want them to realize that I am not a free charter for their pleasure. These are all people whom I normally don't fish or do anything with away from work. When I am home enjoying the Great Alaskan Outdoors, I am normally with my family also and take out a few close friend or family. I do give alot of fish away though. I can only eat so much.

    Exactly! I don't mind taking out a few "not so close friends" on occasion, and I never tell them they have to pitch in, but if I am going to send them home with 50 plus pounds of fish they should realize it's not free. I give away alot of fish also and I would rather bring it home myself and pick who I give it to than foot the whole bill for "my new best fishing buddy". Thats not saying I don't take a few friends out that can't afford to pitch in, but these jokers I work with make at least as much as I do most of em more than I do.

    So, bottom line, Man Up.

    Friends don't let Friends buy all the gas!!

  17. #17

    Default Chuck's Idea

    Quote Originally Posted by alaskachuck View Post
    I used to have a sign in my boat. It said..... This boat does not run on thanks That is when gas was only 1.80 a gallon and i only used around 11 gallons an hours
    Great idea Chuck! Funny thing is, I just bought a boat and you will most likely be one of the first to go out with me. Don't forget that sign!(grin)

    Randy

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    I would never go with a buddy and not share expenses! I make sure that i pay more than my share!

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    Member spoiled one's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alaskachuck View Post
    I used to have a sign in my boat. It said..... This boat does not run on thanks That is when gas was only 1.80 a gallon and i only used around 11 gallons an hours
    You mean this one?

    Spending my kids' inheritance with them, one adventure at a time.

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    Member alaskachuck's Avatar
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    Default YEP

    Quote Originally Posted by spoiled one View Post
    You mean this one?


    That is the one. At 11 gallons an hour in my old duck or my north river Thanks never put fuel in the tank. Great sign thanks for sharing
    Grandkids, Making big tough guys hearts melt at first sight

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