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Thread: Will a 50 cal kill ole grizzly?

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    Default Will a 50 cal kill ole grizzly?

    I'm wanting to know if I can use a 50 cal muzzleloader on moose and grizzly. With about a 90 grain charge of pyrodex and a soft lead conical weighing between 200 and 300 grains?

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by andrew cochran View Post
    I'm wanting to know if I can use a 50 cal muzzleloader on moose and grizzly. With about a 90 grain charge of pyrodex and a soft lead conical weighing between 200 and 300 grains?
    I think you improve your odds a lot using conicals over 300 grains, and maybe even over 400, with that charge. Just lots more lead for fuller penetration. You're going to get lots of expansion with an all lead conical, and I'd feel more comfortable with the extra lead to push it along as it expands.

    Can you do it? I have no doubt it'll do the job with the right shot. Things could easily get dicey if your shot is off a bit, though. I'd sure want a level headed backup shooter standing at my shoulder if I tried it. If you want some entertaining (and a little scary) reading, get hold of the Lewis and Clark journals and read their accounts of shooting grizzlies as they came across the country. Lots of volley shooting, misfires, tree climbing, reloading on the run and general mayhem going on.

    Frankly, if it was me going for grizzly with a muzzleloader I'd feel a lot more comfortable using my 54 rather than my 50. Matter of fact, I'd feel more comfortable using my 58 than my 54. And that's cuzz I don't own a 62 yet. A friend is a lifelong muzzleloader hunter and very experienced with terminal performance on game. He's currently building a rifle for a planned brown bear hunt. Caliber? He's building a 75 caliber. And he's talking to me about standing beside him with my 375 H&H.

  3. #3

    Default 90?

    why only 90 grains? I shoot a 45 cal magnum with 150grain of triple 7 pellets. My son shoots 50 cal magnum 150grains of pyrodex pellets.
    I used to shoot a 54 cal hawken and my 45 cal is way more powerful.
    I shot a blackbear with it and tons of dear, I would say moose yes, griz not me unless it has like 5 barrels lol lol.
    Of course we are shooting inlines with 209 primers. I use a 29" barrel (CVA optima pro)to get the full effect of the anesthetic.

  4. #4

    Default brnbr

    Brown bear are u using loose powder with these big guns?
    You ever shot bullwinkle with any of them?
    I concur with heavy bullets but lotsa powder needs to be compressed into pellets. The modern inlines don't have that purist feel but they do perform!
    I love my nickle 45, I hunt with it alot (dear and black bear), hence the name nicklestick.

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    If they can be killed with a sharp stick why not a muzzleloader? I know many people who have killed brown bears with bows. If you can kill it with a bow and arrow I have no doubt that it can be done with muzzleloader.
    Many of brown bears have been taken with pistols too. You can load a smoke pole to get better ballistics than most pistols and shoot pistol bullets out of them.

    My answer to your question would be yes!
    I would recommend a higher load if you can keep your accuracy, but accuracy is more important than power (in most situations). I would also bring along a friend for a back-up shot but make sure he is using a muzzleloader too

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    Basically I'm going with a primative muzzelloader not an inline. An inline just dosn't feel the same. AND 90 grains is a max load for it.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by nickelstick View Post
    Brown bear are u using loose powder with these big guns?
    You ever shot bullwinkle with any of them?
    I concur with heavy bullets but lotsa powder needs to be compressed into pellets. The modern inlines don't have that purist feel but they do perform!
    I love my nickle 45, I hunt with it alot (dear and black bear), hence the name nicklestick.
    I was moving fast when I read the original post and read right over the moose part of it. My 54 has accounted for 3 moose, a couple of elk and a whole passel of deer. No probs with any of the moose or elk. Single low lung shot fully broadside inside 75 yards and no balls recovered. My charge with that particular rifle is either 90 grains of Goex 3f or Pyro P. My hunting pard has whacked a couple of moose and one elk with his 50 using 400+ grain all-lead conicals over 80 grains of 3f. Seems to kill as well as the 54 with RBs, giving full penetration broadside and probably more if he took an angling shot. He used RB in the 50 to take his first ever moose, and it took 3 shots to do the job. He recovered all three balls, and that's when he decided to go to conicals.

    As for pellets, I've had realy ROTTEN luck with them in 50 and 54 sidelocks using #11 caps. They're fine when you first open the box, but within a couple of months the remaining pellets take 4 or 5 caps to light off, and quite often it's slow ignition with shots going all over the place. If I was using my inline and 209's I might consider them, but in truth it shoots a whole bunch better with loose powder. Cuts groups in half. I don't know where the need for pellets in large charges is coming from, because I haven't seen an inline yet that didn't shoot better with loose. Just might have something to do with our wet climate (120 inches of rain a year). All academic cuzz I don't like scopes on muzzleloaders, and in fact they're illegal during our special muzzleloader seasons. They hold zero advantage for me over traditional guns when you use them with iron sights.

    BTW- Pellets are only available up through 54 caliber, and the 54's are only available in 60 grain size. Best accuracy always seems to fall somewhere other than 120 grains, and there isn't a 54 around rated for 180 grains.

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    So a 54 with a round ball and 90 grains will kill a moose?

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    Quote Originally Posted by andrew cochran View Post
    So a 54 with a round ball and 90 grains will kill a moose?
    Stone dead. I wouldn't take anything but broadside lung shots though, and if I was willing to shoot out to 100 yards, I'd probably stiff up the load toward 120 grains. Depends on how accurate it was with the heavier charges. I'd have to think about it a lot though, because when you look at ballistic tables, round balls lose their velocity so fast that there's less than 100 fps difference at 100 yards between 90 and 120 grain charges. I can only speculate that you'd probably still get full penetration at 100 yards on lung shots with either charge, provided you didn't hit a major bone. The only shot on either moose or elk I've taken past 50 yards was an elk at about 70. The shot was at a very slight angle, hitting the leg bone on the far side after passing through the body. Broke the leg bone too, but didn't exit. Expanded to about the size of a quarter, but I can't say for sure whether that was due to impact with the bone or it occurred before hitting the leg. Based on other wound channels I've traced out, I'm betting it did most of the expanding before it got to the leg, however.

    I'm just not a long range shooter at heart, so that has to be factored in too. I really get a charge out of stalking, so if presented with a 100 yard shot I'm likely to stalk closer if at all possible, even being willing to spook the animal in the process and not get a shot if it comes down to that.

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    Would you say a Tc renegade 54 cal is a good place to start. I've got the option to buy one right now slightly used.

  11. #11

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    My standard load for my 54cal. Johnathan Browning Mountain Rifle is 80gr Pyro P and a PRB. I've done quite well with this combo. My rifle likes it very well and has secured a lot of venison and pork with it. I have never taken an animal in Ak with it yet. LYMAN says, and I have noticed that there is a pretty steep curve in powder verses velocity gain. A 33% increase in powder in my rifle won't give me a 33% velocity increase; only more smoke, flame and recoil; AND a conical bullet is a NO-NO with this rifles twist.
    My plans next year are to hunt with my T/C using the same 80-90 grs of Pyro P and a 320 gr T/C conical for Black bear and Bou. I wouldn't hesitage to hunt moose and or grizzly with it; just haven't planned on it yet. I hunt the interior; Interior grizzlies are smaller and Moose are still large. I hunt solo most of the time and carry a Glock 20; to make the wife feel better.
    The Renegade is a fine firearm, it's twist allows for eithe PRB or conicals to be used. If you like it go for it !!
    " Americans will never need the 2nd Amendment, until the government tries to take it away."

    On the road of life..... Pot holes keep things interesting !

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by andrew cochran View Post
    Would you say a Tc renegade 54 cal is a good place to start. I've got the option to buy one right now slightly used.
    I don't own a Renegade but have shot them and know several folks with them. They're dandies! Best of all as a long-term investment, you can get replacement drop-in barrels for them. Their 1" barrel size compared to the 15/16" of many others means that larger calibers are possible too. Though the 54 is just fine, you can also get 58 caliber and even 62 caliber replacement barrels for the Renegade. On top of that, you can also get smaller calibers. TC doesn't make cals other than 50 (and maybe still, 54), but there are other reputable companies that do.

    If the price was right, I'd snatch it up. You won't regret it.

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    Yeah I'm still deciding if I want it or a .30-06

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    Default HUH

    Quote Originally Posted by andrew cochran View Post
    Yeah I'm still deciding if I want it or a .30-06
    Didn't Know you could muzzle load a 30-06, LOL.
    " Americans will never need the 2nd Amendment, until the government tries to take it away."

    On the road of life..... Pot holes keep things interesting !

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    Na Na! A muzzleloader OR a .30-06. LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by andrew cochran View Post
    Na Na! A muzzleloader OR a .30-06. LOL
    Either-Or ; I'm glad I'm not the only person who has to make the HARD decisions, LOL.
    Either will work fine in AK, should you decide to hunt here.
    " Americans will never need the 2nd Amendment, until the government tries to take it away."

    On the road of life..... Pot holes keep things interesting !

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    Yeah it's a hard decision. I feel I'm gonna make a bad one and I'm hoping I don't blow it. The decision is between a Malin XL7 in .30-06 and a TC Renegade 54 cal.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by andrew cochran View Post
    Yeah it's a hard decision. I feel I'm gonna make a bad one and I'm hoping I don't blow it. The decision is between a Malin XL7 in .30-06 and a TC Renegade 54 cal.
    Marlins will be around for decades and aren't hard to find or going to become hard to find. With the introduction of inline Muzzle loaders the traditional rifle sales are waning and there will soon be few manufacturers in the market. Add in the traditional lines and an Unconditional Lifetime Warranty and Thompson becomes hard to top.
    Then consider the difference in ammo prices and the fact you don't need a scope, rings and mounts.
    With a muzzle loader all you need for basics is a can of powder, a can of caps,some bullets, a can of Crisco, and a Fox skin hat.
    " Americans will never need the 2nd Amendment, until the government tries to take it away."

    On the road of life..... Pot holes keep things interesting !

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    Wel I'll move ahead with the muzzleloader then. But I want to make sure that it will serve me well hunting large game in alaska. And is it a practical meat getter not just a fun gun? I need something that I can depend on to put food on the table.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by andrew cochran View Post
    Wel I'll move ahead with the muzzleloader then. But I want to make sure that it will serve me well hunting large game in alaska. And is it a practical meat getter not just a fun gun? I need something that I can depend on to put food on the table.
    It will require that you get inside 100 yards and make the first shot count. That's a lot more restrictive than a 30-06 range-wise and in terms of reloading speed if you miss. I could get by just fine without my safe full of bolt rifles, but I like them too. It's just that I prefer close range hunting if I can possibly get it. If I had limited days off, next to no money for feeding the family, and really NEEDED a moose to get through the winter, I sure wouldn't be hamstringing my chances by setting out with a muzzleloader, much as I love em.

    Like the others have said, tough choice. But if you already have a bolt action of some sort, that settles the choice on the Renegade in my book.

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