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Thread: Subjective advice needed

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    Member JamesMac's Avatar
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    Default Subjective advice needed

    I have been reading these posts and have gathered some good info on makers, brands, calibers etc. And now I'm very interested in a traditional long rifle. I have no experience which is making this even more fun (in my mind anyway). So I figure I'll buy a kit assemble it this winter shoot it over the spring and summer then hopefully be ready to try it out during hunting season. That's the goal anyway.

    I'm leaning towards a Pennsylvania long rifle, a far second would be a hawken.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesMac View Post
    I have been reading these posts and have gathered some good info on makers, brands, calibers etc. And now I'm very interested in a traditional long rifle. I have no experience which is making this even more fun (in my mind anyway). So I figure I'll buy a kit assemble it this winter shoot it over the spring and summer then hopefully be ready to try it out during hunting season. That's the goal anyway.

    I'm leaning towards a Pennsylvania long rifle, a far second would be a hawken.

    Thoughts?
    Cheapest way to go is a Traditions brand kit, whether a Pennsylvania or Hawken style. A much better kit though more expensive would be the same from Pedersoli. In between, but only available in plains or hawken style is the Lyman Great Planes Rifle. I've got both factory and kit models, and it's just plain dandy.

    No time to dig now, but if I can sign back up in the next 24 hrs I'll pass along some links.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrownBear View Post
    Cheapest way to go is a Traditions brand kit, whether a Pennsylvania or Hawken style. A much better kit though more expensive would be the same from Pedersoli. In between, but only available in plains or hawken style is the Lyman Great Planes Rifle. I've got both factory and kit models, and it's just plain dandy.

    No time to dig now, but if I can sign back up in the next 24 hrs I'll pass along some links.
    Hello BrownBear
    I have a bunch of links you already posted in the “Good kit” Thread. This was very informative – Thank you!

    When you say “I've got both factory and kit models” are you referring to the Lyman Great Planes rifle?

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesMac View Post
    Hello BrownBear
    I have a bunch of links you already posted in the “Good kit” Thread. This was very informative – Thank you!

    When you say “I've got both factory and kit models” are you referring to the Lyman Great Planes rifle?
    Yeah, sorry not to be clearer. I've got a couple of Great Plains factory models plus a kit I built myself. Most folks say the kit I turned out looks even better than factory. All of them really shoot well, too!

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    Default options

    Alright, I am going to make a lazy suggestion. Instead of a kit (nothing wrong with a kit) what about buying a more or less finished rifle and customizing it? This is a standard (minimum) for Rev. War reenactors and a very good shooter: http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/te...set=ISO-8859-1

    It bears a good resemblance to the "Geavers Rifle" of King's Mountain fame. I am very fond of mine after re-browning the barrel, changing the sites(extended rear and German silver front), insetting the trigger guard, and I am adding a back plate and insets like the Geavers. In other words, plenty of work to keep you occupied especially while you are brain-tanning leather for your possible bag, scrimshawing a horn, casting bullets, etc...

    Another good source for project guns is: http://www.middlesexvillagetrading.com/

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    Thumbs up Thanks!

    BrownBear: Thank you for clarifying.

    OffTheRecord: This is great – I want to hear all my options. This is a nice gun! Have you hunted and had success with it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesMac View Post
    BrownBear: Thank you for clarifying.

    OffTheRecord: This is great – I want to hear all my options. This is a nice gun! Have you hunted and had success with it?
    I have one in .45 cal but even though I live in Juneau I have not taken it hunting. I was active in Rev War and F&I War down in NC and TN so most of my powder was not pushing a ball. I did buy a maxi-ball mold just in case but I am lacking that "patience" stuff. The .54 or .50 cal versions should be good for hunting bigger game than our little Sitka blacktails. Mine is very accurate especially with the set trigger; I felt that the rifle out shot the stock sights.

    Brown Bear has a lot more hunting experience.

    I have a hard time leaving a gun stock (cowboy action shooting bad habit) and enjoy reworking guns to what I want them to be without the risk of getting stuck on a kit. An "in-the-white" gun would also tempt me. I have more black powder guns than I currently have a good reason to shoot since there is not much 18th century reenacting in Alaska (although the Russian blockhouse over in Sitka could be fun with a few more interested folks).

  8. #8

    Default KIT

    Not knowing how MUCH work you really want to do yourself and what kind of tools you have. I would say get a prefitted and inletted kit. That way all thats left is finish, final fit, and assembly.
    In some lines a kit is a box with all the required parts in one box, with the fitting and final inletting left up to the purchaser.
    Most kits regardless of brand will make nice looking and usable firearms.
    " Americans will never need the 2nd Amendment, until the government tries to take it away."

    On the road of life..... Pot holes keep things interesting !

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    Quote Originally Posted by OffTheRecord View Post
    I have one in .45 cal but even though I live in Juneau I have not taken it hunting. I was active in Rev War and F&I War down in NC and TN so most of my powder was not pushing a ball. I did buy a maxi-ball mold just in case but I am lacking that "patience" stuff. The .54 or .50 cal versions should be good for hunting bigger game than our little Sitka blacktails. Mine is very accurate especially with the set trigger; I felt that the rifle out shot the stock sights.

    Brown Bear has a lot more hunting experience.

    I have a hard time leaving a gun stock (cowboy action shooting bad habit) and enjoy reworking guns to what I want them to be without the risk of getting stuck on a kit. An "in-the-white" gun would also tempt me. I have more black powder guns than I currently have a good reason to shoot since there is not much 18th century reenacting in Alaska (although the
    Russian blockhouse over in Sitka could be fun with a few more interested folks).
    OffTheRecord:
    Yes for hunting I’m thinking a .50 cal is the minimum. So when are you going to take that .45 cal dear hunting?
    Have your read “White Devil” by Steve Brumwell? If not I think you would enjoy it. It is about Robert Rogers and his Rangers raiding the village of St. Francis during the F&I War. After that episode the Abenakis referred to Rogers as Wobomagonda “White Devil”. I’m sure that you already know this, but it is a good read no the less.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brav01 View Post
    Not knowing how MUCH work you really want to do yourself and what kind of tools you have. I would say get a prefitted and inletted kit. That way all thats left is finish, final fit, and assembly.
    In some lines a kit is a box with all the required parts in one box, with the fitting and final inletting left up to the purchaser.
    Most kits regardless of brand will make nice looking and usable firearms.
    Brav01:
    Thanks for the advise. To answer your question I have no experience assembling guns from kits. And I only have limited gunsmithing tools. But I have disassembled and reassembled all of my guns quite often. I know that this is a simple task but I enjoy tinkering and having a working knowledge of my firearms.
    I think you’re correct in that a prefitted inletted kit might be the best option for my first go at this.

    I’m looking for a nice project to work on over the winter that will result in a practical shooter that I can take big game hunting.

    Do you prefer percussion over flintlock in Alaska? I like the idea of a flintlock but not sure how practical this is in a wet environment? Might be more trouble then fun??

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    Default free time

    OffTheRecord:
    Yes for hunting I’m thinking a .50 cal is the minimum. So when are you going to take that .45 cal dear hunting?
    Have your read “White Devil” by Steve Brumwell? If not I think you would enjoy it. It is about Robert Rogers and his Rangers raiding the village of St. Francis during the F&I War. After that episode the Abenakis referred to Rogers as Wobomagonda “White Devil”. I’m sure that you already know this, but it is a good read no the less.

    Probably be a while before I make time to hunt. Thank you for the book title.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by OffTheRecord View Post

    Probably be a while before I make time to hunt.
    I know lots of folks in the East who use 45's with round ball successfully for deer, so I'd have no qualms about using it for blacktails, if that's slowing you down. I haven't shot them with RB smaller than 50 cal, but that's only because I don't have a 45 (yet). I've sure whacked plenty with CF handguns in diverse calibers to have complete confidence in a well-placed 45 RB.

    From what I know of the hunting within casual boat range of Juneau, most of the habitat is a setup for ML hunting, so time's a wasting!

  13. #13

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    I’m looking for a nice project to work on over the winter that will result in a practical shooter that I can take big game hunting.

    Do you prefer percussion over flintlock in Alaska? I like the idea of a flintlock but not sure how practical this is in a wet environment? Might be more trouble then fun??
    [/quote]


    The last kit I bought was a T/C Hawken. I am currently working on purchasing another one which was started but never finished. I believe these kits have been discontinued by T/C.
    The easiest kits to obtain currently are the Lyman GPR. They are available in RH or LH, percussion and flintlock, 50 or 54 cal. The last choice being critical; the twist, whether you want to shoot round balls or conicals.Or you could purchase extra barrels to broaden your options.
    While I have used both flint and percussion in the past; I currently own no flinters. I can't seem to get used to a flash going off near my face. As far as using a ML rifle in AK; I've never used a flinter here. I'm sure with an ox-knee and care a flinter is doable.
    Good luck with your project !!
    " Americans will never need the 2nd Amendment, until the government tries to take it away."

    On the road of life..... Pot holes keep things interesting !

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by brav01 View Post
    Do you prefer percussion over flintlock in Alaska? I like the idea of a flintlock but not sure how practical this is in a wet environment? Might be more trouble then fun??
    A whole lot will depend on where you're located and your access to real black powder rather than a substitute. Flinters just won't work right with anything but black.

    As far as the wet, I've seen both flinters and cappers fail. The serious flinters I know never seem to have any more problems with it than the guys using cappers.

    I've got a supply of black now, and I'm thinking seriously of a flinter just cuzz I've never owned one. It falls in line with my continuing effort to hunt using only stuff I make myself. I've got it down now to where I'm only buying caps and powder. If I can eliminate the caps and knap my own flints, I'll have taken it about as far as I can go.

    No real reason for me to be that way, except for the fun. Sure gives you lots of good stuff to do in between seasons. Right now I'm using all this stuff that I built myself:

    Rifle (Lyman GPR kit)
    Possibles Bag
    Powder Horn
    Powder Measure
    Loading Block
    Round Balls and Conicals(cast my own)
    Bullet Lube
    Capper
    Deer Call
    Knifes & Sheaths

    I've been a serious reloader, home gunsmith, bullet caster, fly tyer and rod builder for going on 50 years now, so all this do-it-yourself stuff must be part of my nature. It sure seems to tickle the right spots for me anyway. Never could figure why everyone else isn't building their own, too.

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    Thank you Brav01
    Can you recommend a good book on this subject for a novice?
    The more that I learn about MLs, I realize I don't know squat.

    Good luck with that TC!


    Quote Originally Posted by brav01 View Post
    I’m looking for a nice project to work on over the winter that will result in a practical shooter that I can take big game hunting.

    Do you prefer percussion over flintlock in Alaska? I like the idea of a flintlock but not sure how practical this is in a wet environment? Might be more trouble then fun??

    The last kit I bought was a T/C Hawken. I am currently working on purchasing another one which was started but never finished. I believe these kits have been discontinued by T/C.
    The easiest kits to obtain currently are the Lyman GPR. They are available in RH or LH, percussion and flintlock, 50 or 54 cal. The last choice being critical; the twist, whether you want to shoot round balls or conicals.Or you could purchase extra barrels to broaden your options.
    While I have used both flint and percussion in the past; I currently own no flinters. I can't seem to get used to a flash going off near my face. As far as using a ML rifle in AK; I've never used a flinter here. I'm sure with an ox-knee and care a flinter is doable.
    Good luck with your project !![/QUOTE]

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    Thanks for the feedback BrownBear.

    Is access to purchase quality blackpowder an issue in Alaska?
    When you say "serious flinters" you are referring to the shooter - yes? And I suppose these fellows have got their acts together.

    You have got a real nice hobby or I should say passion for this stuff. I'm impressed.


    Quote Originally Posted by BrownBear View Post
    A whole lot will depend on where you're located and your access to real black powder rather than a substitute. Flinters just won't work right with anything but black.

    As far as the wet, I've seen both flinters and cappers fail. The serious flinters I know never seem to have any more problems with it than the guys using cappers.

    I've got a supply of black now, and I'm thinking seriously of a flinter just cuzz I've never owned one. It falls in line with my continuing effort to hunt using only stuff I make myself. I've got it down now to where I'm only buying caps and powder. If I can eliminate the caps and knap my own flints, I'll have taken it about as far as I can go.

    No real reason for me to be that way, except for the fun. Sure gives you lots of good stuff to do in between seasons. Right now I'm using all this stuff that I built myself:

    Rifle (Lyman GPR kit)
    Possibles Bag
    Powder Horn
    Powder Measure
    Loading Block
    Round Balls and Conicals(cast my own)
    Bullet Lube
    Capper
    Deer Call
    Knifes & Sheaths

    I've been a serious reloader, home gunsmith, bullet caster, fly tyer and rod builder for going on 50 years now, so all this do-it-yourself stuff must be part of my nature. It sure seems to tickle the right spots for me anyway. Never could figure why everyone else isn't building their own, too.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesMac View Post
    Thanks for the feedback BrownBear.

    Is access to purchase quality blackpowder an issue in Alaska?
    When you say "serious flinters" you are referring to the shooter - yes? And I suppose these fellows have got their acts together.

    You have got a real nice hobby or I should say passion for this stuff. I'm impressed.
    Yeah, the serious flinters I know are the nuts holding the guns. I call them "nuts" out of pure fondness cuzz these guys are about as dedicated as you can get, which means they don't use ANY modern stuff. Right down to the clothes they wear. Two I know don't even own conventional rifles. They do every bit of their hunting with flinters, and mostly with flinters they've made themselves.

    You can get real blackpowder readily in Anchorage. There's another outfit (Northwest Trading Company) up here that can help get powder to you if you're on the road system. The problems really mount for anyone like me that's not on the road system. You can't be flying the stuff around willynilly, and you can't ship it in ways that reach the bush. I've had to walk the long way around the mountain to get my own supply.

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