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Thread: Jim Creek in jeopardy?

  1. #1
    Member PatrickH's Avatar
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    Default Jim Creek in jeopardy?

    If you are using the Jim Creek area you may want to check out the BLM website. Much of what is now being used has been selected for conveyance to native corporations. Basicly anything that is not already conveyed to the state has been selected to go to the native corp. This includes everything from Swan Lake to past Wolf Point including the Friday Creek drainage. In the Alaska BLM page go to the Spatial Data Managment System at http://sdms.ak.blm.gov/isdms/imf.jsp?site=sdms and use the zoom tool to go to the area. If you check the Generalized Land Status box it will show what the native corporations already own and what they have selected to recieve. It helps some to check the "Quads" box so you can see the river and contour lines.
    I don't use the area much, but lots of other people do. If they don't have access to Jim Creek they may be pushed into my area instead. I would rather that people speak up now and keep the land open for public use. They do now own some of the land there, but this will increase their holdings enormously. I beleive they will close off their areas or at least charge a tresspass fee if they get the land.

  2. #2
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    Is there any way to stop this land from being conveyed to the native corps. Not just here but all over. Why does it seem they are tying up all the accessable lands.

  3. #3

    Default Kpua

    That has all been set before the Knik Public Use Area . Those trails predate statehood and are all RS2477 trails that cant be blocked off . Trails are marked and must have a corridor with easments for public use .

  4. #4

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    Do you honestly think the natives could patrol it any better than the AK State Troopers have been able to? Go play and be happy, while you can.

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    Member TWB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akres View Post
    Do you honestly think the natives could patrol it any better than the AK State Troopers have been able to? Go play and be happy, while you can.
    Native Corps have no problems with patrolling interior lands to keep trespassers out...it would be MUCH easier to do so within the KPUA since its all within driving distance.

    Easily funded with fines.
    We do not go to the green woods and crystal waters to rough it, we go to smooth it. We get it rough enough at home; in towns and cities; in shops, offices, stores, banks anywhere that we may be placed

  6. #6
    Mark
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thebear_78 View Post
    .....Why does it seem they are tying up all the accessable lands.
    1) Accessible lands are more valuable

    2) Those who like to restrict access know that private lands along public rights-of-ways work well to limit access to the vast public lands lying beyond

    3) A perfect example of that is the Dalton Hwy Corridor fiasco

  7. #7
    Mark
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akres View Post
    Do you honestly think the natives could patrol it any better than the AK State Troopers have been able to? ........
    Yes, primarily because the Native will want to patrol them, and the Troopers do not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TWB View Post
    Native Corps have no problems with patrolling interior lands to keep trespassers out...it would be MUCH easier to do so within the KPUA since its all within driving distance.

    Easily funded with fines.
    Can you prove that.

    Only a trooper can fines you, not a rent-a-cop.

    If a rent-a-cop told me he was going to give me a fines i would tell him to call a real cop.

  9. #9
    Mark
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rutting Moose View Post
    Originally Posted by TWB
    Native Corps have no problems with patrolling interior lands to keep trespassers out...it would be MUCH easier to do so within the KPUA since its all within driving distance.

    Easily funded with fines.
    Can you prove that.

    Only a trooper can fines you, not a rent-a-cop.....
    And Troopers have largely abdicated law enforcment activities in that area.

    Civil law can and very well might take over from there. Rent-a-cops can videotape orders to vacate private land, and if such orders are ignored or worse, civil suits can follow.

    That is how Operation Rescues were finally ended; abortion foes were quite willing to endure misdemeanor trespass penalties to close abortion clinics for a day, but when the clinics began filing civil suits for the closures for many thousands of dollars (and when racketeering charges were threatened), the Operations ceased.

    That is what happens when authorities fail. Other options become viable.

    .....If a rent-a-cop told me he was going to give me a fines i would tell him to call a real cop.
    Cameras convict. It's pretty tough to stand on a witness stand and tell a jury that "I didn't say that", or "I left" when they're watching otherwise on a TV screen right there in the courtroom.

    And remember that civil damages are often much, much more than "fines".......

  10. #10
    Member TWB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rutting Moose View Post
    Can you prove that.

    Only a trooper can fines you, not a rent-a-cop.

    If a rent-a-cop told me he was going to give me a fines i would tell him to call a real cop.
    Depends on who does the patrolling. Years ago before the gates were put up at the head of the old glenn @ Knik exit I was ticketed when riding the power lines from the railroad lot to Eklutna, so called "shareholder" made the call.
    We do not go to the green woods and crystal waters to rough it, we go to smooth it. We get it rough enough at home; in towns and cities; in shops, offices, stores, banks anywhere that we may be placed

  11. #11

    Default The Eklutna claims have been there for years

    They will be getting a strip 6 miles wide across the Knik Valley when the conveyance occurs. When heading toward the Glacier from Jim Creek you will hit their land around where you have to cross the usually wide shallow creek (4 miles before Wolf Point) and not re-enter state land until 2 miles past Wolf Point. There is a RS 2477 and 17B easement requests for the main trail (pretty much guaranteed) and some trails going to the north in Friday Creek valley (still to be approved). On the Hunter Creek side, I don't know the status of the 17B easements.
    This will take a big chunk of land out of the middle of the PUA but will still leave most of the destinations accessable. The biggest loss will be the hunting in Friday Creek valley, I know there are a few bait stations there and some moose hunting.
    Maybe one day we can get the legislature to work on a land swap for state land somewhere else.
    Mike
    Mike
    www.alaskaatvclub.org
    There is a faster way off the mountain, might hurt a little though.

  12. #12
    Member greythorn3's Avatar
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    jim creek is a he//hole anyhow..

    Ray
    Semper Fi!

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    I hate all this native BS. They are taking everything and leaving the common white man with nothing. They wonder why we are prejudice? I know why I will be. I have never shown any prejudice in the past, but this will most likely change.
    Thank you native corps for showing your true colors!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by akflyfisher View Post
    I hate all this native BS. They are taking everything and leaving the common white man with nothing. They wonder why we are prejudice? I know why I will be. I have never shown any prejudice in the past, but this will most likely change.
    Thank you native corps for showing your true colors!
    Lets not get too tuned up on here, free speech is our right but lets not sway too far and start offending people. I bite my tongue on this issue to an extent, but there are folks here who are part native, my son included.
    We do not go to the green woods and crystal waters to rough it, we go to smooth it. We get it rough enough at home; in towns and cities; in shops, offices, stores, banks anywhere that we may be placed

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by akflyfisher View Post
    I hate all this native BS. They are taking everything and leaving the common white man with nothing. They wonder why we are prejudice? I know why I will be. I have never shown any prejudice in the past, but this will most likely change.
    Thank you native corps for showing your true colors!
    I think you are on to something here. I cant stand the Corporations. But the Native Corps are no different then any other big corp. They are out to make money and they dont care about there neighbors. I dont think its in the common Alaskan Natives intrest to shut down the state or restrict access. I dont feel my view here is racist. I think it is an unffair policy to give away areas of the state that every Alaskan should be able to use . Heck I wish I had a State started and funded corp and could qualify for free land and subsidies. Its just the world we live in.

    Respectfully

  16. #16
    Member greythorn3's Avatar
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    stop it your going to make indians cry like on that old commercial.. hey if i owned the land and seen what goes on out there i would say you dont deserve to be on it.
    Semper Fi!

  17. #17

    Default I agree

    I agree with you, It is BS. Why should they get it?? Why not a hunting organization etc....

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by nature calls View Post
    I agree with you, It is BS. Why should they get it?? Why not a hunting organization etc....
    Because our elected representatives arranged for it be this way. And why did they arrange it? Because in some way, they benefited as well. NOTHING happens by chance, every action is spurred by someone wanting something.

  19. #19

    Default W t f

    How much land do they need? I came here to get away from the "posted" signs. Pretty soon it will be just like any other state...Who is on the average guy's side? (average guy=non native)
    ...Jackie Bushman is a TOOL

  20. #20
    Mark
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akres View Post
    Because our elected representatives arranged for it be this way. And why did they arrange it? Because in some way, they benefited as well........
    Enter King Ted, who virtually created the ANCSA model singlehandedly, and justified it with true statements regarding the failures of the reservation system of the 19th century.

    But what nobody realized at the time was that the King, after setting up Native corporations, would be a huge recipient of Native corporate campaign contributions...................

    ...........and when he got those corporations federal no-bid contract rights, they would make exponentially more money...............which means more corporate campaign contributions..................

    Great system we have here..............

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