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Thread: mag primers needed?

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    Default mag primers needed?

    I decided to try W760 in my 7mm-08 Remington, and I have a bunch of brass already primed with CCI 200 primers. I know that W760 often requires a magnum primer, but does it require magnum primers in such a small case, filled to 90%+ case capacity? I'm using between 45 and 49 grains of W760.

    Is it worth it to try these loads with the non-mag primers, or should I fire the primers and re-prime with magnum primers? What happens if you aren't using a hot enough primer? Hang fires, or just irregular velocities and poor groups?

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    Member RMiller's Avatar
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    Default

    I dont see anything wrong with trying that load.

    For what it is worth I have deprimed many live primers very carefully without issues.
    "You have given out too much reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later".

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    Quote Originally Posted by AKArcherdaddy View Post
    I decided to try W760 in my 7mm-08 Remington, and I have a bunch of brass already primed with CCI 200 primers. I know that W760 often requires a magnum primer, but does it require magnum primers in such a small case, filled to 90%+ case capacity? I'm using between 45 and 49 grains of W760.

    Is it worth it to try these loads with the non-mag primers, or should I fire the primers and re-prime with magnum primers? What happens if you aren't using a hot enough primer? Hang fires, or just irregular velocities and poor groups?
    Go for it. I have had bad luck with mag primers and ball powder in cold weather.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tryants." (Thomas Jefferson

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    Quote Originally Posted by AKArcherdaddy View Post
    I decided to try W760 in my 7mm-08 Remington, and I have a bunch of brass already primed with CCI 200 primers. I know that W760 often requires a magnum primer, but does it require magnum primers in such a small case, filled to 90%+ case capacity? I'm using between 45 and 49 grains of W760.

    Is it worth it to try these loads with the non-mag primers, or should I fire the primers and re-prime with magnum primers? What happens if you aren't using a hot enough primer? Hang fires, or just irregular velocities and poor groups?
    If you have standard primers loaded, by all means give them a try but the powder will perform much better with mags. You would likely get hang fires at below zero temps. That powder is also slow for the 7-08 case so your loads are light and that makes things worse usually.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by AKArcherdaddy View Post
    I decided to try W760 in my 7mm-08 Remington, and I have a bunch of brass already primed with CCI 200 primers. I know that W760 often requires a magnum primer, but does it require magnum primers in such a small case, filled to 90%+ case capacity? I'm using between 45 and 49 grains of W760.

    Is it worth it to try these loads with the non-mag primers, or should I fire the primers and re-prime with magnum primers? What happens if you aren't using a hot enough primer? Hang fires, or just irregular velocities and poor groups?
    My regular 308 load features 760 and 165 grain bullets with standard primers. Velocity is a lot more uniform than with the mags some folks push. Seeing that it's the same parent case, I'd guess you're right on track with the 200's. You don't mention which bullet you're launching, but if they're on the heavy end I don't see any problems. And yeah, I've deprimed live primers too without problems, though I've always done it with my press rather than a hand tool.

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    Default 140 Accubonds

    I'm setting up with 140 gr Accubonds. Since I'm going on a sheep/moose combo hunt on the south side of the Brooks in 2009, my goal was to find a load/bullet combo for my Kimber Montana that would work well for sheep, but still put a moose down. I don't want to bring two rifles since I'm also bringing my archery gear. I'm taking the 7-08 for sheep, and as a back-up plan for a moose.

    The Accubonds have a great BC, and are rumored to hold together very well too. They are long for their weight, so I figure they will probably shoot more like 150's than 140's. I've spent hours looking up and comparing every 7-08 load I could find, and more than a few times I found people who were getting great speeds and MOA accuracy using W760, so I decided to give it a try.

    I'll give the CCI-200 primers (actually BR-2) a try, and maybe even load up a few more using CCI-250s later, just to compare the results.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by AKArcherdaddy View Post

    I'll give the CCI-200 primers (actually BR-2) a try, and maybe even load up a few more using CCI-250s later, just to compare the results.
    I have no way to confirm it, but I've always "heard" that BR-2's are a little cooler than 200's. If that's the case, I'd be sure to chrono and watch for too-large velocity variations. I've never shot my 200 loads at freezing temps, so even if you decide it's a great load, I'd follow on and shoot one day in the cold just to double check Murphy's point. He knows more about this stuff than the rest of us put together. And then some.

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    Default yeah...

    I may be new to this but it didn't take much reading to know that when Murphy speaks, one should pay attention. Thanks Murphy, and everyone else too. You make this forum great!

    I'll try to load up some identical W760 loads with CCI250 primers, and I'll report back. I'm not sure how long it will be though. I have a date to shoot at Birchwood next Tuesday afternoon, but I also have about 180 rounds and 4 different calibers (7mm-08, 7mmRM, .308, and 375 H&H) to run through the chornograph and check for groups. I doubt I'll get it done in even three days at the range!

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    Quote Originally Posted by AKArcherdaddy View Post
    I may be new to this but it didn't take much reading to know that when Murphy speaks, one should pay attention. Thanks Murphy, and everyone else too. You make this forum great!

    I'll try to load up some identical W760 loads with CCI250 primers, and I'll report back. I'm not sure how long it will be though. I have a date to shoot at Birchwood next Tuesday afternoon, but I also have about 180 rounds and 4 different calibers (7mm-08, 7mmRM, .308, and 375 H&H) to run through the chornograph and check for groups. I doubt I'll get it done in even three days at the range!
    Well, since I'm being held in such high regard I guess I'll have to confess. (Thanks for the kind words by the way.) I looked over my notes with that powder in both the 308 and 7-08. I also looked over the half dozen loading manuals that list the caliber. Speer (which is Speer bullets and CCI and RCBS) list mag (CCI-250's) with all ball powder for that caliber. Hornady lists Rem 9 1/2 primer, and Nosler list WLR for all powders for that caliber. The Barnes #3 list Federal 210M (match) Most of these listed W760 powder for at least one bullet but none recommended it as a best load or most accurate powder.

    I have in my notes the using of one pound of it one winter in the 308, 7-08 and the then new 260 Remington. There were no temperatures below 24 degrees F (It weren't in Alaska, OK). The 260 seemed to like the powder and there was no difference with either CCI-200's or 250's except about 10 fps in velocity. The 7-08 had less regard for it and velocity with one 140 grain bullet was erratic with both CCI-200's and 250's (?). The 308 velocities were pretty stable but nothing note worthy I guess with these two primers. The test was limited but certainly didn't cast any shodow on using W760 with the 7-08. There is some use with Fed 210's and 210M's but can't tell if it mattered from my notes.

    Hornady's use of the Rem 9 1/2 primer surprises me as I have always thought the 9 1/2 was cooler than say the 200. Can't confirm that either, but I use the 9 1/2 sometimes for a lot of rimmed cases with good results. I have found it seems to help the ignition with lower pressures. A lot of the 45K psi loads show very low SD's with the 9 1/2. I also thought that the WLR primer was warmer than the 200. Winchester did for a number of years just market one primer, the WLR. I don't know if they have the WLR magnum still or not. A WLR on size fits all primer has worked well with all the powders that Winchester (Olin) markets, including the ball propellants.

    So as it turns out I'm not much help at all. Have a good shoot and don't mix up your ammo. Take good notes and let us know how it turns out.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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    Default suggestions?

    Rest assured, I'll keep good notes. My powder selection was based partially on what I thought would work well for the 7-08, but I also tried to find powders that might be worthy in at least one of my other rifles since I can't afford to buy EVERY powder out there, at least not right away. I'm sure as I continue to work I'll round out my powder selection.

    I'll be testing my 7-08 with the following powders:

    RL-19
    IMR 4895
    H4350
    W760

    I also have "notes to self" to try 4064, although it seems to be better for accuracy than for velocity, and maybe H4895 if I find reason to think there is a major advantage/difference over IMR 4895. Are there any of these that you would put a gold star next to, or any glaring omissions from my powder list for this caliber?

    Other than RL15, 22, and 25 that's about it for the powders I own at the moment, so I can't try a bunch of "maybe's", but if you think I have left one of the BEST 7mm-08 powders off the list, please let me know and I'll try to add it.

    As mentioned I'm shooting 140 gr Accubonds out of a light 22" barrel (Kimber 84M Montana) which has a 9" twist rate. My goal is to put together something that will shoot reasonably flat (2850+ fps and a good BC) for sheep, without being too wimpy for a moose at reasonable yardage, with MOA or better accuracy. I guess outside of powder selection, I'd also be willing to hear if anyone thinks there's a more suitable bullet for these purposes than the 140 gr Accubond.

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    I think you're on the right track and are going at it the right way. I don't buy and try every powder but have a collection of favorites that can be used over a broad range of bullet weights and calibers. These include H4895, H4350, H4831sc. In the Reloder series I use 15, 19, 22, and 25. There are a few others such as Varget and Benchmark and a couple of Vihta's but generally those handle most normal caliber needs for rifles.

    If I were to grab a powder for a do all, cover all the bases, application it would be H4350. I use this by the keg in at least a dozen calibers. It is my go to powder for 7x57, 30-06, 338 and several others. I don't own a 7-08 now but it would be my recommended powder for the caliber.

    You'll do well, enjoy your shoot.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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    Default update

    I thought I'd update this thread too. I shot some W760 loads out of my 7-08 yesterday using standard CCI BR-2 primers. The temperature at the range was near, and then below, freezing.

    The loads with w760 actually showed less speed variation than loads with some (not all) other powders. Speed was excellent and accuracy was near MOA, so I may actually settle on W760 as my hunting load.

    It was not quite as accurate as the loads with H4350, which were almost amazing, but the speed I was getting with H4350 was not as good. If accuracy is the key, H4350 seems to be the powder my Kimber shoots straightest with.

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    Moderator Paul H's Avatar
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    With few exceptions I've found that where it as appropriate powder for the application, H-4350 provides outsanding accuracy.

    As to magnum vs. std primers, I generally run std large rifle primers in chamberings that burn up to 70 grains and have had good accuracy and reliable ignition even in sub zero temps, not that I do alot of testing sub zero.

    As with everything in reloading, each gun is a law unto itself, so mag primers might be just the ticket for your gun. Just make sure when you change componets you work back up.

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    Default some results

    For those interested, the RL-19 was a bust, at least out of my 22" barrel 7-08. Much too slow burning, I think, unless you use a long tube.

    The IMR 4895 was promising. It's still in the running but I need to try a few more bullet/powder combinations.

    The Accubond 140's are a nice bullet, but long. To get them to fit the magazine I had to push them pretty deep into the case, which took up a lot of powder capacity and also put them quite far off of the lands given their slim ogive. I also tried Hornady 139 gr SPBT's, but I couldn't find a single powder they would shoot accurately out of my rifle with. The Barnes TSX BT's (also in 140gr) shoot great, and are a little shorter than the Accubonds, which is hard to believe given that the ABs have some lead in them! The difference is in the poly tip on the ABs vs the hollow point on the TSXs, and the fact that the AB have a slimmer, narrower ogive, which is also why they have a considerably higher BC than the TSXs.

    I decided to add Varget into my tests, and since both Varget and 4895 don't fill the case before reaching max pressures the Accubonds might get another chance. Unfortunately I haven't been able to find any lately! I'll probably also buy a pound of 4007ssc and try it, especially since my next project is a 22-250 and that powder is supposed to be very good in that cartridge as well. Do I see some more range time in my future???

    As mentioned earlier, so far W760 powering TSXs has given me 2900 fps and 1+" groups, which makes it the best "all-around" for hunting so far. I'm still hoping that I can still find a combination that gives me 2900+ fps and sub MOA, and maybe even a higher BC than the Barnes TSX's. However, if I fail in my "quest" it's nice to know I already have an above average load to fall back on.

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    Sounds like you have found yourself a good load. Just to echo what some others have said...H4350 is a great powder, usefull over a broad range of applications. When I dont achieve my expected results w/H4350, I try IMR4350 or WW760. I have never ran my WW760 loads in -06 sized cases with magnum primers as some suggest. Am I missing out...maybe, but it works for me. Maybe some side-by-side testing is in order.

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