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Thread: 45-70 Bullet selection

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    Question 45-70 Bullet selection

    I know there has to be someone out there that has experiance loading the 45-70. I'm looking for input/opinions on bullet selection, and load data. My goal is to develop a deep penatrating, close range (inside 100 yds) round to use in my Marlin guide gun. I'm not overly concerned with bullet expansion since a .458 sized hole is pretty large already. I am more concerned with driving the bullet through as much animal as possible. If possible I would like to duplicate as close as possible the loads offered by Buffalo Bore.

    Thx
    Steve

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    Default 45-70 bullets

    You are quite right in the there are lots of bullets to choose from. For several years now I have been using 430 gr gas check bullets from Oregon Trail Bullets. They are a hard cast and shoot well in my 1895 guide gun. Currently I am using 43.5 grains of IMR 4198 and they tend to bark on both ends. I hope to work up a little hotter load this winter. I have taken two bison and one moose with my guide gun. I currently have a reflect II site on it but I am looking on putting a leupold 1.5X5 on it.
    Good luck working up loads.

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    Bearcat I just got a leupold 1.5X5 last week money well spent IMHO.

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    Member .338-06's Avatar
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    Here's a link to some interesting looking cast bullets (or boolits, as the casters say ).

    www.competitor-pistol.com/jb%20home.html

    They might be what you're looking for.

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    Default Cast Performance 460gr / 458s

    Cast Performance makes a 460 grain gas check bullet which I have used in the Marlin Guide Gun. It was the heaviest bullet that I could find locally (great northern guns had some in stock) that would reliably cycle thru the action.

    46gr IMR 3031 would push this bullet to 1600fps (chronographed). I shot and chrony'd these side by side with the heavy buffalo bore loads and they were equivalent.

    Have fun

    Nate

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    Thanks for the info. Either of the 400+ grainers sounds like they will do what I am looking for. I'll load some and let you know how they do.

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    You might try the 400 grain Speer too. I've been using it for the past 30 years and it shoots very accurately. Keep it under 1900 fps and it will take anything you are looking at. I use 50 grains of IMR 3031. Gets around 1700 fps. Jim

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    I recently shot a couple of rounds off of some I had loaded with surplus ball powder (I don't remember how much powder, I'll have to look it up later). On a chornograph, it came in at about 1920 fps from an 1895 (22" barrel), std primers and 400 grain jacketed flat nose Hornadys. I let a friend put a couple of rounds through it camp to satisfy his curiosity. Through an 8" Birch round and 13-15" into a sand bank. It was impressive. Then I recovered the bullets. They weighed no less than 382 grains and one was a hair greater than 1" the other was about .89" I have never had a bullet that penetrated that well with that amount of retention.

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    after slugging my bore of my 1895G I chose hardcast and selected a couple of different weights from Beartooth Bullets. I did shoot moose on 2 occasions with jacketed, Alaska Ammo brand 405's and my Kodiak 405's. The Kodiaks held up better and penetrated better. Both still one shot kills. Personally I found that the hardcast was easier to shoot-maybe just me but the hardcast did not need to rip/strip thru the bore like a jacketed.

    just my .02

    by the way the hardcast killed just as good on both moose and grizzlies if not better-sure penetration and exit.

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    Default Hard Cast

    Grizz
    Is one of the hard cast bullets you selected the 425 gr.? After reading the info on the beartooth web site I am buying a box and see how they do.

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    405gr kodiak bonded is really hard to beat.

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    tradbowkill, yes it is. Marshall has quite a good selection I've the 405's,425's and the 460's from Cast Performance I think it is. All very finely made and quite accurate.

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    Default 400 Remington...

    Quote Originally Posted by jdb3 View Post
    You might try the 400 grain Speer too. I've been using it for the past 30 years and it shoots very accurately. Keep it under 1900 fps and it will take anything you are looking at. I use 50 grains of IMR 3031. Gets around 1700 fps. Jim
    Is a fine low cost jacketed bullet, BUT, extra thin jacket, AND they absolutely refuse to feed through the Marlins I've loaded them for.

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    Grizz, What kind of velocity are you getting with the 425s? Have you done any penatration tests with it?

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    Member SusitnaAk's Avatar
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    Default 45/70

    I 2nd jdb3, 30+ yr,s for me same load 50 grn,s 3031 400 speer, maybe we just old school Jim? but they killed everything they were ever pointed at! My bud with the guide gun always looking for the newest greatest, He bought some of those Garretts, Ck there web site, lots good info there, We shot at down tree on the river bank, big old cotten wood 30in+ dia, still solid and that 540 grain went though it, and found it about 6in deep in sand behind it, could have shoved that thing into another round ,retained almost 100% of it,s weight, I don,t know what cast they use but it is hard for sure! I was Impressed. You would have to break some bones on the way in with those, there is no mushrooming at all. I Like my soft points,Near shoulder on the way in find them on the oppsite side, just under the hide on the way out. Works for me,

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    Default Garrett's for penetration

    Like Susitna say's, I am the guy with the Garrett's. If you can get em and you want penetration... WOW. 540 for sure, and I had the 420's go through the tree. But as stated, you'll want to hit the running gear. I have no doubt this round will go from one end of a bear or moose and out the other after seeing what it did with this tree. Check out the web site, the only issue is they don't ship direct up here so you'll need to find someone in the L48 to send them up.

    And then for seconds is the Speer 400, great round (first hand experience) but I like two holes...

    I have also loaded the 405 Kodiaks but have not used them on any animal yet, but am told they work a little better than the speers. But don't know for sure yet. I am after a griz and someday, I'll tell the story...

    Good luck,

    Tony

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    Quote Originally Posted by tradbowkill View Post
    Grizz, What kind of velocity are you getting with the 425s? Have you done any penatration tests with it?
    tradbowkill, since Marshall Stanton does the bullet making and test results with the same rifle as mine I worked up my loads identical to his with the same powder/bullet combo. I don't have the chrono'd loads anymore I don't think. Penetration tests? Clean thru moose and grizzlies-how's that? Starline brass, WLP, H322,crimp die and BTB 425'S-good stuff.

    Those that buy factory fodder from the likes of Garretts are spending a pretty penny for 20 rounds, you will do better cost wise of course by reloading a bullet liken to the Garrett.

    have fun

  18. #18

    Default Hornady bullet works well

    Try using Hornady Flat Nose 350 gr #4503 bullet, with IMR 4198, 42 grains, CCI 200, averages 1713 fps out of 10 shots in my Marlin 1895GS with ports. 1.5 " groups at 100 yards. no kidding. Using a Leupold scout scope forward mounted. Took large caribou with this a few years back, bullet smashed through both front shoulders. Tremendous penetrating energy.

  19. #19

    Default 405 Kodiak

    The 405 grain Kodiak bullet has a good reputation. 54 grains of H322 fills up the case and helps the crimp to keep the bullet in place. I have also heard good things about the 395 grain Punch Solid from Belt Mountain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by .338 mag. View Post
    The 405 grain Kodiak bullet has a good reputation. 54 grains of H322 fills up the case and helps the crimp to keep the bullet in place. I have also heard good things about the 395 grain Punch Solid from Belt Mountain.
    I believe the Belt Mt. Punch full-jacket flat nose is the most exciting thing to happen to the 45/70 in years. The Garretts are great, but the Punch seems to do the same thing with a bit less recoil, and the Jacket is so thick that it's unlikely to deform no matter what kind of bone it hits. Brian Pearce wrote up a nice load chart in the July 2008 Rifle issue 238. They make the Marlin a true cape buffalo rifle, so they'd be great for any Alaska situation under 100 yards. My thought is, if you don't handload, go Garrett, if you do, go Punch. And if you get bored, shoot down a couple of trees.

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