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Thread: Aire Super Duper Puma for longer trips?

  1. #1
    Member Scottsum's Avatar
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    Default Aire Super Duper Puma for longer trips?

    Can someone please give me some info on the Aire Super Duper Puma. I will be using a raft primarily on the upper Kenai and other road accessible rivers, but I would like to do a fly-out trip or two in the next couple of years as well. I have heard and read that the super duper is almost like a drift boat in the way it handles, which is perfect for 99% of my use, but will it be enough for 3 guys for a week to ten days on a remote river. We'd be willing to leave the beer at home and eat freeze dried food...

    One more thing. Will Aire's fly-fishing frame that comes on the super duper break down easily and fit into a Beaver or similar?

    Thanks for the help.

  2. #2
    webmaster Michael Strahan's Avatar
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    Default Super Duper Puma

    Hi Scott,

    The SDP would be fine for a fishing rig for the upper Kenai, even with three guys. But it's too small for the same crew on an extended expedition-type trip. You just don't have enough room in the boat, in my opinion.

    Go with something larger.

    As to the fishing frame, the biggest drawback I see is that the brace bars used by some fly fishermen could be deadly in a sweeper situation. I don't like 'em for that reason. Also they add up to extra weight and bulk on flyout trips.

    -Mike
    LOST CREEK COMPANY: Specializing in Alaska hunt consultation and planning for do-it-yourself hunts, fully outfitted hunts, and guided hunts.
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  3. #3
    Member BlueMoose's Avatar
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    Default Yes and No

    Yes you can however as Mike states very little room for a ten day remote trip in a 14ft boat three guys and a fishing frame. Just like people get Cabin fever you would get "Boat Fever" ( you know that thing that drives you nuts becuase someone or something is in your space 24 -7 in about two days crowded with gear and a fishing frame.

    Yes the A-S.D.P. Handles well and would be a wonderful inflatable for the Kenai to inlcude over-night and three day trips at 14ft however anything after that unless you are taking min gear would be pushing the issue.

    Concerning the AIRE Frame verses the NRS fishing frame go witht he NRS it leaves you more options and can be made into a better breakdown frame then the AIRE.

    A.S.D.P. 14ft, 115 LBS 5' 11" wide, tube Diameter 19 inches, Load Capacity 1150 lbs, 15 inch Kick

    AIRE E Series 156 6' 2" wide, 21.5" tube, 14 inch Kick, Load capacity 2215lbs, weight 156 lbs

    The E Series leaves you lots of room for extended trips i.e. greater than 5 days on a remote river will let you bring yoru friends and carry your gear without being in the way.

    Will the E series fit into a 207 or beaver sure. Not the most foldable boat but can be done.

    Sorry for Rambling! Just food for thought.

    Moose-O

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    webmaster Michael Strahan's Avatar
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    Default Space Limitations

    Yeah, Moose is right about folding the plastic boats. They just don't fold up as tightly as rubber boats, and this does take more space in the aircraft. They more than make up for it on the river though, in terms of performance. You want a stiffer boat for many reasons. Especially with bigger loads.

    As to the AIRE products, you could get by with the D series boats, but I don't like those smaller bow and stern tubes from a splashover perspective. The E is a cool design that seems to just beg for a small kicker motor on the back, but you do lose some bow space with the bullet-shaped bow. Overall you might take a hard look at the R series, which is a conventional shape and proportional tube diameter all around.

    If it were me and I was even thinking about three guys on the same boat for hunting, the only two choices are catarafts; either the AIRE Cougar or the AIRE Super Leopard. Both have the largest carrying capacity / length ratio for float hunting. Sure, you could go with an 18' round boat, but then you're looking at a very bulky package and the thing weighs over 200#! That's a lot of plastic to lug around in a portage situation, or just general handling. On the other hand the cat is easily modified to run any size outboard (I run an 8-horse on mine, and just use it to get downstream faster on float hunts). Plus you have all that room to spread out your load, which translates into less wasted time packing / repacking your boat and looking for stuff.

    Hope it helps!

    -Mike
    LOST CREEK COMPANY: Specializing in Alaska hunt consultation and planning for do-it-yourself hunts, fully outfitted hunts, and guided hunts.
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    Default

    It's interesting comparing Aire's specs on these boats. The Super Duper Puma Is just about the equal of their 130D. Both have 19" tubes and are within 5 lbs of each other, but the SDP is a foot longer and 5 inches narrower inside & out. If you compare their technical drawings you can see the 130D has more room in it, and it is rated for 170 lbs more capacity. Oddly, the 130E is rated the same as the SDP and weighs the same too.

    Anyway, I agree that a 13' raft (and especially a 14' SDP) is a bit small for three people and gear. But I have friends that do it. It's just crowded, and probably drafts more water than you might like too. Still, traveling light I'm sure you can make it work.

    Staying within Aire's boat line for comparison purposes, Changing to a 14' raft (compared to the 13' or SDP) adds at least 20 lbs of boat and increases the load capacity by 400-500 lbs. That's quite an increase. I don't have any problem with 3 people in a 143R for extended trips, but it adds 30 lbs to the boat weight over a SDP.

    SD Puma: http://www.aire.com/AIRE/sdpuma.shtml
    130D: http://www.aire.com/AIRE/130D.shtml
    130E: http://www.aire.com/AIRE/130E.shtml
    130R: http://www.aire.com/AIRE/130R.shtml
    143R: http://www.aire.com/AIRE/143R.shtml

  6. #6

    Default Super Duper O.K. with conditions

    Unlike the other posters, I actaully have a Super Duper Puma. I have had it on 4 week long trips this summer in Oregon and Idaho, with 2 and 3 people for up to 5 nights on the river and up to Class IV- rapids with that type of load no problem - (lower salmon, Owyhee, Deschutes, Rogue). If you pack right you can eat great, drink tasty beverages, but you won't be using a fishing frame (I do have one though for day trips or use with 2 people). 10 nights would also be o.k. for trips if you pack light and have a very high probablility of eating fish for a lot of the dinners. With 2 people you can use casting frame up front (I have a Recretec type platform). With three I rig this way, seat/table deck (home made coated plywood with extendable legs from Roll-A-Table) up front with drop bag underneath (Stitches N Stuff brand), second bay is Yeti Sherpa 80 qt cooler with foam on top for the mutt to ride on, 3 bay is rowers cockpit with "T-shaped foot bar and a 20 mm rocket box inside the cockpit on either side of the foot bar - yes there is plenty of room and I have Rocket Box drop bags from Stitchs N Stuff, rower sits on Dry Box on 4th bay, gear in back and along sides to equalize weight.

    Yes the Super Duper handles very good with the 3 person load in Class IV- (small technical not large hydraulic class IV) on a 5 night trip. The only difference between 5 and 10 nights is more whiskey, rice, catch more fish, more oatmeal, more room for poo, which can be accomodated by bringing less beer
    Jason

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    webmaster Michael Strahan's Avatar
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    Default SDP Payloads and Float Hunts

    Quote Originally Posted by shapp View Post
    Unlike the other posters, I actaully have a Super Duper Puma. I have had it on 4 week long trips this summer in Oregon and Idaho, with 2 and 3 people for up to 5 nights on the river and up to Class IV- rapids with that type of load no problem - (lower salmon, Owyhee, Deschutes, Rogue). If you pack right you can eat great, drink tasty beverages, but you won't be using a fishing frame (I do have one though for day trips or use with 2 people). 10 nights would also be o.k. for trips if you pack light and have a very high probablility of eating fish for a lot of the dinners. With 2 people you can use casting frame up front (I have a Recretec type platform). With three I rig this way, seat/table deck (home made coated plywood with extendable legs from Roll-A-Table) up front with drop bag underneath (Stitches N Stuff brand), second bay is Yeti Sherpa 80 qt cooler with foam on top for the mutt to ride on, 3 bay is rowers cockpit with "T-shaped foot bar and a 20 mm rocket box inside the cockpit on either side of the foot bar - yes there is plenty of room and I have Rocket Box drop bags from Stitchs N Stuff, rower sits on Dry Box on 4th bay, gear in back and along sides to equalize weight.

    Yes the Super Duper handles very good with the 3 person load in Class IV- (small technical not large hydraulic class IV) on a 5 night trip. The only difference between 5 and 10 nights is more whiskey, rice, catch more fish, more oatmeal, more room for poo, which can be accomodated by bringing less beer
    Jason
    Jason,

    Great info!

    To clarify my position, I am talking about using the SDP for an extended (10-14 days) expedition trip with hunting on the agenda. Without a doubt the SDP can handle three people and the eats and gear for a week-long fishing trip, but on most Alaska rivers of interest to float hunters, there's just not enough boat there to do the job when you figure meat / trophies into the mix.

    Also I don't know the water depth you are running in the south 48, but up here many of our rivers are very shallow in the fall, because of glaciers freezing, limited precipitation, or what have you.

    Finally, I do tend to pack a little on the heavy side, but I'm guiding and folks expect a few creature comforts!

    Hope it makes sense!

    -Mike
    LOST CREEK COMPANY: Specializing in Alaska hunt consultation and planning for do-it-yourself hunts, fully outfitted hunts, and guided hunts.
    CLICK HERE to send me a private message.
    Web Address: http://alaskaoutdoorssupersite.com/hunt-planner/
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  8. #8

    Default more info

    P.S. Mike,

    My wife is from AK, been on many trips for work and pleasure to remote areas of Alaska. Hydrograph in the Northwest is pretty much the same as in AK (I study that topic for a living), late summer and winter have low flows (except for rainy west-side cascade rivers). I ran the Owyhee at a pretty low flow, google-it, its tight and shallow at low flow. I am actually a low-water boater, I like it better.

    The origional poster didn't say anything about float hunting, obviously anyone inquiring about float hunting with 3 people using super duper puma is insane and can be totally discounted.

    Guides bring to much crap (no offense), p.s. I have seen a lot of your posts and you happen to be the Man!
    Hopefully we will run into each other on the river
    Cheers,
    J


    attached photos - boat rigged with all comforts for 2 + fishing frame on Owhyee, and boat rigged for 3 on Deschutes
    Owhyee vids:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7o7C-YKiw30

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-GTMWjdd3o

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3TTPty8sb4
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Member BlueMoose's Avatar
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    Smile Shapp Welcome to the Forum

    Welcome and great data however I must point out that you have no idea what type of boats I own :-) just between you me and the fence post.

    Great input hoepfully you will continue to provide insight and data to the forum.

    On a side note the original poster explained he wishes to fish the Kenai and the boat that is referenced is an outstadning choice for that purpose but I will have to differ with you concerning a 10 day remote fly in with three people in a 14ft SDP and a fishing frame which includs both back and front casting platforms. Take the Frame out of the equation and complete a couple fo modification such as you have provided would allow for additional room but sitll crowded :-)


    To be up front I am not trying to start a fight just based on the question certain things have to be addressed. YES it can be done! No not with any comfort level for 10 days in a remote setting with three people fishing with a fishing frame being that remote IMO flying in and out all things have to be addressed to inlcude back up tent, sleeping bags rated to Zero synthetic fill, sleeping-mats, back up stove, three days of extra food, back up water filteration system etc...

    P.S. Your correct we guides tend to bring to much CRAP LOL.

    Again Welcome to the Forum and Keep on Posting " Great Stuff"

    Richard M. Mousseau
    Blue Moose Rafting Sales & Outfitting
    www.bluemooserafting.com

  10. #10

    Default

    No fighting involved just great debate (I take nothing personal)

    Mr. Blue Moose, I already bring the extra stuff you mention, and close quarters aren't a problem for good friends, although I suspect for a group of guided homophobes would be different:

    I alwasys bring a 2 burner coleman, and a backup one burner, which is fine for a 3 person trip

    backup water filter = purification tablets (pretty small)

    My bag is a synthetic -5F bag and is pretty small, it is the only one I got

    thermorest with added chair converting cover gets you a sleeping pad and chair all in one

    backup tent for 3 people = 12x14 tarp teepee made with oars

    backup food = freeze dried and pistol/fishing rod (for fish/grouse/or cannibalism which eliminates some weight if the option us used)

    I have noticed over the years that guides tend to have middle of the road gear which tends to be more bulky (cause it can stand more abuse usuallY) than what a private party might have for tents/pads/sleeping bags.

    Great debate Yo
    J

    p.s. although not alaska, a lot of the trip in the lower 48 I have done involve a lot of commitment in a remote area, which for most comparisons is similar to that found in remote alaska, such as the middle Owyhee, lower Colorado (Texas area), etc. (no bears though but lots of rattle snakes), and I have done a lot of backcountry fly-in trips in AK, but not rafting for work so I know the logistical needs of beeing "in the middle of freaking no where" quite well

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    Member Scottsum's Avatar
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    Default Holy cow, this forum rocks!

    Wow, I didn't expect this much info so quickly. Thank you all. My fly-out trips will probably be just fishing. I don't hunt much anymore. I figured for the fly-out trips I would take the frame down to bare bones and have the person up front sit on a cooler. I actually already bought the boat, or rather my wife did, last night. I got the loaded super duper with the fly-fishing frame, three seats, anchor system, 2 oars and motor mount for $3700, new. I've been considering rafts for about a year, and that's the best price I've seen for the sdp or similar.

    So it sounds like most of you will agree that for two or three on the upper Kenai, the boat will be a great boat for me, and it is conceivable that my brother, Dad and myself will be reasonably comfortable for a week or so on a remote river if we pack carefully and modify the frame a bit.

    I don't know if plugging this will get me in trouble or not, but I am contributing to a new forum and writing a blog about flooring on a new website and I would love to see our discussions there take off like this. If any of you know anything about flooring or have questions about an upcoming project, check it out. www.findanyfloor.com

    Hey Shapp, do you have any still photos of your raft rigged for remote trips?

    Again, thanks a ton for all the helpful advice. I'll definitely be checking back often and I'll need more advice when I start planning a trip in earnest.

  12. #12
    Member Scottsum's Avatar
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    Default oops

    Sorry Shapp, I should have looked closer at your last post, I see you did post a couple of pics. Thanks again.

  13. #13
    Member BlueMoose's Avatar
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    Default Enjoy the Toy

    Well Congrats on the purchase I am under the assumption that AR&K hooked you up!

    We have a little place on Funny River Road! Feel free to shot me a note if your heading down for some fishing I keep the beer cold.

    Blue Moose

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    webmaster Michael Strahan's Avatar
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    Default Thanks !

    Quote Originally Posted by Scottsum View Post
    Wow, I didn't expect this much info so quickly. Thank you all. My fly-out trips will probably be just fishing. I don't hunt much anymore. I figured for the fly-out trips I would take the frame down to bare bones and have the person up front sit on a cooler. I actually already bought the boat, or rather my wife did, last night. I got the loaded super duper with the fly-fishing frame, three seats, anchor system, 2 oars and motor mount for $3700, new. I've been considering rafts for about a year, and that's the best price I've seen for the sdp or similar.

    So it sounds like most of you will agree that for two or three on the upper Kenai, the boat will be a great boat for me, and it is conceivable that my brother, Dad and myself will be reasonably comfortable for a week or so on a remote river if we pack carefully and modify the frame a bit.

    I don't know if plugging this will get me in trouble or not, but I am contributing to a new forum and writing a blog about flooring on a new website and I would love to see our discussions there take off like this. If any of you know anything about flooring or have questions about an upcoming project, check it out. www.findanyfloor.com

    Hey Shapp, do you have any still photos of your raft rigged for remote trips?

    Again, thanks a ton for all the helpful advice. I'll definitely be checking back often and I'll need more advice when I start planning a trip in earnest.
    Scott,

    My bad for assuming you were talking float hunting. 'Tis the season for me and I have it on the brain... Anyway in your case if you pack light, the SDP should do the trick. But you really have to discipline yourself to keep the payload under control.

    Some day I will buy one of those things, but I already have too many boats. What would I do with another? I really like the SDP though- great boat for our skinny streams, one guy and a couple of caribou. Great stuff.

    Glad to have been of some assistance.

    Regards,

    -Mike
    LOST CREEK COMPANY: Specializing in Alaska hunt consultation and planning for do-it-yourself hunts, fully outfitted hunts, and guided hunts.
    CLICK HERE to send me a private message.
    Web Address: http://alaskaoutdoorssupersite.com/hunt-planner/
    Mob: 1 (907) 229-4501
    "Dream big, and dare to fail." -Norman Vaughan
    "I have climbed my mountain, but I must still live my life." - Tenzig Norgay

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    Member Scottsum's Avatar
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    Default

    Well Congrats on the purchase I am under the assumption that AR&K hooked you up!

    We have a little place on Funny River Road! Feel free to shot me a note if your heading down for some fishing I keep the beer cold.

    Blue Moose
    Actually, I bought the boat from West Marine. They advertised it on Craigslist. I have talked to the guys at ark a couple of times and I was planning to give them the business but this is several hundred less than their price. West marine had two closeouts. 1 sp and 1 sdp. I couldn't pass it up. Truth is, I live in Kenai and haven't even seen the boat yet. I'll pick it up on Sunday. Hopefully ark won't shun me for going elsewhere for a better deal. From what I've heard and the couple times I've been in there, I'm guessing they'll still be helpful even though I didn't give them the sale. I'll be outftitting my boat with accessories from them for sure.

    How do these round boats do with motors? Will a 9-15 horse push me accross Skilak after floating the canyon?

    Thanks for the offer on the beer. I might just take you up on it. Two of my favorite kinds of beer are cold and free!!

    Thanks again for the help guys

  16. #16
    webmaster Michael Strahan's Avatar
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    Default rafting politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Scottsum View Post
    Actually, I bought the boat from West Marine. They advertised it on Craigslist. I have talked to the guys at ark a couple of times and I was planning to give them the business but this is several hundred less than their price. West marine had two closeouts. 1 sp and 1 sdp. I couldn't pass it up. Truth is, I live in Kenai and haven't even seen the boat yet. I'll pick it up on Sunday. Hopefully ark won't shun me for going elsewhere for a better deal. From what I've heard and the couple times I've been in there, I'm guessing they'll still be helpful even though I didn't give them the sale. I'll be outftitting my boat with accessories from them for sure.

    How do these round boats do with motors? Will a 9-15 horse push me accross Skilak after floating the canyon?

    Thanks for the offer on the beer. I might just take you up on it. Two of my favorite kinds of beer are cold and free!!

    Thanks again for the help guys
    Interesting... the current manager of West Marine in ANC is the former manager of ARK! Dunno where these boats came from, but ARK is the AIRE dealer for Alaska. Hmmm....

    -Mike
    LOST CREEK COMPANY: Specializing in Alaska hunt consultation and planning for do-it-yourself hunts, fully outfitted hunts, and guided hunts.
    CLICK HERE to send me a private message.
    Web Address: http://alaskaoutdoorssupersite.com/hunt-planner/
    Mob: 1 (907) 229-4501
    "Dream big, and dare to fail." -Norman Vaughan
    "I have climbed my mountain, but I must still live my life." - Tenzig Norgay

  17. #17

    Default

    Scottsum, I will take some detailed photos of my setup for you, you are going to need some stuff for your SDP for rigging 20 mm rock boxes you aint going to be able to find at ARK (yes I have been to the store). Also are going to have trouble with motors on that boat because the rocker is so high. The best for that rig is a long shaft 4 hp with integrated tank on top.
    J

  18. #18
    Member BlueMoose's Avatar
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    Default LOL Cold and Free

    Shapp hit the nail on the head. We run 4 hps self contained long shafts even on 16ft Cats. Average speed for us across Paxson with a 4 hps loaded is about 6 MPH. 10-15 HPS is some what over-kill and creates other complicated issues such as fuel residue on your plastic boat "long story" , weight and space issues.

    If crossing lakes and just making time down river are your main concerns you might even consider a 2 or 2.5 HPS long shaft with tank on top that is unless the wind is blowing at 30 mph across the lake then you have a sail boat :-)

    Your frame configuration for a motor with an AIRE Frame might be a little tuffer than with and NRS frame configuration but there is always a way and your only limited by your thought process.

    Blue Moose

  19. #19
    webmaster Michael Strahan's Avatar
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    Default Outboard shaft lengths

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueMoose View Post
    Shapp hit the nail on the head. We run 4 hps self contained long shafts even on 16ft Cats. ...
    Moose,

    A little off-topic here, but I'm running short shafts on my cats, with an adjustable transom made by Sea Dog. HERE'S THE LINK.

    This has worked well for me over the years and I like the short shaft because I can backpack it on long portages. On one hunt we landed on a hill three miles from the river and portaged everything over. We had the entire river to ourselves because nobody wanted to put up with the difficult portage. It was a wonderful trip. For my purposes the long shaft outboards are not necessary. The adjustable nature of the transom allows me to reach the water in most situations. FWIW, I'm running a Yamaha 8-horse on mine.

    I agree, however, that the high rocker on the SDP (in fact, on the entire Puma line) puts you out of reach with a standard transom. You have to go with a drop system. But I really don't favor outboards on round boats anyway, especially bailers. Yes, it does work if you're running a very small outboard and can make that long pull across upper Skilak much more tolerable. But for that sort of thing I prefer the cat. "Different strokes" as they say...

    Anyway I just wanted to mention that you don't HAVE to run a long shaft. For folks new to this, the additional weight / bulk savings could be helpful, especially on flyouts or anything involving long portages.

    -Mike
    LOST CREEK COMPANY: Specializing in Alaska hunt consultation and planning for do-it-yourself hunts, fully outfitted hunts, and guided hunts.
    CLICK HERE to send me a private message.
    Web Address: http://alaskaoutdoorssupersite.com/hunt-planner/
    Mob: 1 (907) 229-4501
    "Dream big, and dare to fail." -Norman Vaughan
    "I have climbed my mountain, but I must still live my life." - Tenzig Norgay

  20. #20
    Member BlueMoose's Avatar
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    Default Not off Subject Eh

    Thanks Mike! Yes we have worked on a couple of them this summer. Nice Set ups if the previous owner did not modify which has happend :-) Nothing but couple of hours and some fixen did not cure.

    If any one is reviewing the thread they are worth checking out.

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