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Thread: Without a clue?

  1. #1
    Member Big Al's Avatar
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    Default Without a clue?

    This is a different problem than I've ever had to deal with before. A friend of mine called me the other day and told me he has an upcoming buffalo hunt and do to physical problems with his shoulder operations he has had to go to a vary light recoiling rifle. He picked the 7X57 Mauser to have all the work done on for recoil reduction.

    The problem is the 200 grain bullet rule for buffalo. He has a box of the old style Nosler partition bullets in .284-200 grains. I can not find a lick of data for loading these bullets, any where. Has any one have published data for this combination?
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tryants." (Thomas Jefferson

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Al View Post
    This is a different problem than I've ever had to deal with before. A friend of mine called me the other day and told me he has an upcoming buffalo hunt and do to physical problems with his shoulder operations he has had to go to a vary light recoiling rifle. He picked the 7X57 Mauser to have all the work done on for recoil reduction.

    The problem is the 200 grain bullet rule for buffalo. He has a box of the old style Nosler partition bullets in .284-200 grains. I can not find a lick of data for loading these bullets, any where. Has any one have published data for this combination?
    Al I have some 195 gr. data in my Hodgdon powder data no.25 for Ruger M77 if you want it.

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    Member Big Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theONE73 View Post
    Al I have some 195 gr. data in my Hodgdon powder data no.25 for Ruger M77 if you want it.
    Well heck yes! I just got off the phone with Nosler and talked to a guy that's been with them for a lot of years and he didn't think they ever made these bullets. The rifle he had the work done on was the real old 77 Ruger so the data would be invaluable to me. Thank you vary much!
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tryants." (Thomas Jefferson

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    Default Maybe you could rent one.....?

    Wow 200 grains in a .284. I guess we could figger this out. Are you loading for his hunt? I have a couple of programs I can run to calculate what powder,etc. The 195 grain data would be a good start.

    But I've got to ask, whose rule is this 200 grains for buffalo and what kind of buffalo would care? I think a 175 grain would exit on a broad side shot. Anyway just curious about the rule.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



  5. #5

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    I sent you the data in PM Al...good luck!!! Let me know if there is anything else you need.

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    Member RMiller's Avatar
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    The rule is part of the regulations for the Delta Bison Hunt.

    The rifle must have 2000 ftlbs retained at 100 yards.

    For a pointed 200 grain in 284 it would need to be started at 2200 FPS. For a round nose 2275 FPS.

    Dont chronograph the load and you will be fine.

    I thought the requirement called for minimum 30 cal also.
    "You have given out too much reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later".

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    Member Big Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    Wow 200 grains in a .284. I guess we could figger this out. Are you loading for his hunt? I have a couple of programs I can run to calculate what powder,etc. The 195 grain data would be a good start.

    But I've got to ask, whose rule is this 200 grains for buffalo and what kind of buffalo would care? I think a 175 grain would exit on a broad side shot. Anyway just curious about the rule.
    I got the published data from theONE73, thanks for the help offer Murphy.

    The rules regarding buffalo come from the State of Alaska. I don't know how they came up with the rule? Perhaps it was by interviews after the hunt reports, where they asked the buffalo who had been shot if they preferred being shot with a certain size bullet weight? I have often wondered what kind of dip s__t comes up with these rules. Maybe they come from the place where the sun don't shine?

    I do wonder seeing as how the loads were done in a Ruger 77 if they had a overall length for the loaded rounds? You still out there theONE73?

    It would have been much easier if he brought the rifle down to me, but he said he had to much junk to haul on the plane. Oh well, I can muddle through now.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tryants." (Thomas Jefferson

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Al View Post
    I got the published data from theONE73, thanks for the help offer Murphy.

    The rules regarding buffalo come from the State of Alaska. I don't know how they came up with the rule? Perhaps it was by interviews after the hunt reports, where they asked the buffalo who had been shot if they preferred being shot with a certain size bullet weight? I have often wondered what kind of dip s__t comes up with these rules. Maybe they come from the place where the sun don't shine?

    I do wonder seeing as how the loads were done in a Ruger 77 if they had a overall length for the loaded rounds? You still out there theONE73?

    It would have been much easier if he brought the rifle down to me, but he said he had to much junk to haul on the plane. Oh well, I can muddle through now.

    Sorry Al no go on the OAL this is the old powder data manual and it's a little vague.

  9. #9
    Member AK_Stick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RMiller View Post
    The rule is part of the regulations for the Delta Bison Hunt.

    The rifle must have 2000 ftlbs retained at 100 yards.

    For a pointed 200 grain in 284 it would need to be started at 2200 FPS. For a round nose 2275 FPS.

    Dont chronograph the load and you will be fine.

    I thought the requirement called for minimum 30 cal also.

    I think the 30 cal requirement went away a few years ago.....

  10. #10

    Talking don't hit a rib

    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    Wow 200 grains in a .284. I guess we could figger this out. Are you loading for his hunt? I have a couple of programs I can run to calculate what powder,etc. The 195 grain data would be a good start.

    But I've got to ask, whose rule is this 200 grains for buffalo and what kind of buffalo would care? I think a 175 grain would exit on a broad side shot. Anyway just curious about the rule.
    Probably would Murphy, but I've seen a large bull shot at 40 yds with a 338 mag using a 220gr Nosler. Perfect broadside shot and bullet hit a rib and deflected into to the opposite flank. Barely caught the back of the lungs and the bull took quite awhile to expire. Couldn't get in a finishing shot because the cows surrounded him and kept us away. Even the 200gr rule won't mean much when "stuff" happens, which it can, when one least expects it.
    If you like getting kicked by a mule...then you'll "love" shooting my .458.

  11. #11
    Member Float Pilot's Avatar
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    Try a starting load of 42.0 grains of IMR 4350.
    You may be able to work up to 44 grains depending on how deep you have to load them.

    My 7x57 with a 1 in 10 twist did not like super heavy bullets. The accuarcy was less than stellar.

    Too bad he can't use an old 30-06, it would be much easier to load up some half way accurate ammo.
    Floatplane,Tailwheel and Firearms Instructor- Dragonfly Aero
    Experimental Hand-Loader, NRA Life Member
    http://site.dragonflyaero.com

  12. #12

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    In Montana the requirement for shooting a Bison was .30 cal. So you could take your .308 or 30-30 but leave your 7mm RM or Dakota at home.

    Anyway, 200 gr for a .284 is a big long bullet. I'm guessing you need a lot of twist. Is there anyway he can get a big heavy 300 or 338 with a mild load, recoil pad etc. and shoot a 200/225 bullet out of it?

    There must be an answer here somewhere.

  13. #13
    Member Big Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Float Pilot View Post
    Try a starting load of 42.0 grains of IMR 4350.
    You may be able to work up to 44 grains depending on how deep you have to load them.

    My 7x57 with a 1 in 10 twist did not like super heavy bullets. The accuarcy was less than stellar.

    Too bad he can't use an old 30-06, it would be much easier to load up some half way accurate ammo.

    Fellows thanks for the suggestions, he dropped by the house tonight and we had this discussion. It comes down to the draw blood rule first. He who draws blood can have the assistance of anyone to help him secure the animal. This is and old hard and fast, game rule in Alaska.

    Ever wonder why you see no caliber restrictions in Alaska? It has to do with native Alaskan hunters. These rules came about do to the State not wanting to interfere with native hunting. My goodness, this State actually had common since at one time.

    The load data for the 4350 and the 195 grain bullet, theONE73 supplied in a PM to me eairler.

    Thanks! With in a few hours I'll be running the ammo through and have him on his way home by afternoon.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tryants." (Thomas Jefferson

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