Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 25

Thread: So... 8hp or 15hp on grumman 19' - hElp!

  1. #1
    New member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    8

    Default So... 8hp or 15hp on grumman 19' - hElp!

    So, gentlemen,
    Which should I purchase for my 'new' well-used old grumman freighter, with lift?
    I am eager to see this canoe meet all the expectations, but do not want to dump the children on a river with a 15hp... the 8hp seems safer and ideal for the real small rivers, but I don't know that it would perform onthe Tanana or Yukon to get to Charlie River, etc.

    The Honda 15 hp weighs 103# (4stroke), and its 8 hp weighs 77#.
    Should I wait and look for a 2 stroke 15 horse?

  2. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    1,763

    Default Motor size

    both will work just fine, the problem you will have is the weight factor the bigger the eng the more weight in the front to make it level, as for small streams don't worry about both will work fine, what ever size you do get a rock hopper for the botton end it will help save the gear box, carry extra props an water pump repair kit, what will also help is go to Napa [auto parts store] an get a 25 ft gas line an move the gas tank up front you will need the 25 ft. os you can run over an under the load, the frist time you use the long hose you yill have a fit with it air in line you will learn to do away with that problem with time also get a 6 gal tank an save the small one for later [don't know when]
    If I was you I would get the larger eng. a little more power is great on long trips I was down the copper about 20 years a went below Obrian creek an had a 7.5 HP an it took me 3 trys to get back up the drop, down river about 2 or 3 miles sure wish I had had my 15 HP. then, you will change props as to the size strean you travel , when I was running the rivers I had 3 props I used, good , used , and well used , blades lost about 1 inch wore down but it worked well in the gravel an rocks, good luck

  3. #3
    New member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    8

    Default

    Sid,
    What is 25 more pounds to the lift-transom? Could go down to an 8hp (4 stroke Hondas) and get teh 77# motor, or up 25# to the 15 hp 103#. Is this weight too dangerous for the big rivers?!
    And you ran the Copper River on a Grumman Freighter???
    Do I have to be crazy to run 100 pounds on a tippy 19' canoe?
    I want the power, but finding a two stroke (lighter) is difficult nowadays.
    Thank you for the input!

  4. #4
    New member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    730

    Thumbs up motor for 19' Grumman

    Quite a few of us who post on this site have been thru the same dilemma .... and most of us have settled on a two stroke 15 horse.

    I'm a long term fan of Honda products .... I've owned Honda cars, generators and four wheelers. They have all been very reliable, long-lived and trouble free. So, I'm brand loyal.

    When I bought my 19' Grumman, I wanted to go with a 4-stroke Honda (better mileage, quieter, etc.) I settled on a 15 horse, but the Honda 15 weighs 101#. The 2-stroke 15's are much lighter. The 15 horse 2-stroke Yamaha weighs 78# ... 24# lighter. And the deciding issue is that trim of the 19'er is an issue. The transom on that canoe is very narrow ...12". Extra weight in the motor is a negative, when it comes to the front-rear balance or trim. I settled on the Yamaha and have been completely satisfied. It runs on a ratio of 100:1 .... one ounce of oil for 100 ounces of fuel. Not much oil. It's far more quiet than I expected. And the economy has been excellent. On a down and back 170 mile river trip, most at full throttle, I used 16 gallons of fuel. It's great at creeping around at 1 mph. Has started first pull, every time for 5 seasons. I gave up one on a Honda because of the weight. I couldn't be more satisfied with my Yama-hammer .... and it weighs 24# less than a 15 short shaft Honda, and is more appropriate for the Grumman.

    The extra power of a 15 horse, when loaded and going up stream is a real plus. I see no advantage to a less powerful motor. 15 2-strokes have been used for many years in Alaska, with excellent results.

    My generator and 4-wheelers are still Hondas, but a Honda isn't appropriate for my 19' Grumman.

    Happy Trails.

  5. #5
    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Delta Junction
    Posts
    4,078

    Default hello everyone

    I registered for this post because I see some freighter canoeists (if that's a proper term) posting threads. I just harvested a small bull moose last saturday with my 1997 17ft. 8in. square stern oldtown discovery sport. The hunt will always bring cherished memories. Just like back home in Maine i used a canoe, wool hunting clothes, and a lever action rifle to fill my freezer. I have a 6 horse suzuki short shaft with prop protecter. I have two props. one for top speed and one for heavy loads. With the heavy load prop I was running 11 mph on the way out to the tyone river. On the way back to Lake Louise Lodge I was doing 9 mph loaded down with a moose. I stood up in my canoe while motoring full throttle though two ft. waves on the way back through susitna lake becuase my back hurt after handling that moose by my self (tiller extension). The boat was very stable when loaded down. I used 5 gallons of gas with that little 2 stroke and ran 62 miles with that **** motor! I'll be heading to whitehorse, yukon t. to purchase the st. james bay freighter and a 50 horse jet.

  6. #6
    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Delta Junction
    Posts
    4,078

    Default contact info

    On the subject of motors: Take it from someone who fills the freezer with canoes, grew up in caonoes, and worked for oldtown canoe company: the lightest motor is always best! 9.9 hp 15hp and some 20hp motors generally weigh the same. 4hp 5hp and 6hp usually weigh the same. you dont need to go mack-bejesus across the water to get the job done. A two stoke 6 is great for weight and power: generally a top speed of 15mph with aggresive pitch prop(7.5 in). loaded down with full load youll get 8-10 mph with a torque monster prop. the six usually weighs between 40 and 60 pounds. Easy to handle! the 9.9 class will tack on some weight and fuel consumption, but will idle better, and provide more load carrying power. If your one of those guys who needs the dual exaust 1-ton 4door pick-up, a .338 knucklehead magnum rifle, and nascar sticker to match......just put a 20 horse motor on the transom.

  7. #7
    Moderator Alaskacanoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Sterling
    Posts
    1,450

    Default Congratulations

    Mainer good job with the hunt, and your set up.
    you freighter guys are in a class all by your self.
    I think we are going to see a surge now going in this direction.
    With fuel prices the way they are, I think we will see more folks doing recreation in more effiecient cars and craft.
    I ran into a fellow from Oregon down at Ninilchik that had an old aluminum canoe that was a double ender but sported a little transom. He pushed it with an old 3 hp motor. He said the canoe was 1958 model.
    When you come to a fork in the trail, take it!

    Rentals for Canoes, Kayaks, Rafts, boats serving the Kenai canoe trail system and the Kenai river for over 15 years. www.alaskacanoetrips.com

  8. #8
    Moderator Alaskacanoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Sterling
    Posts
    1,450

    Default transom

    When you come to a fork in the trail, take it!

    Rentals for Canoes, Kayaks, Rafts, boats serving the Kenai canoe trail system and the Kenai river for over 15 years. www.alaskacanoetrips.com

  9. #9
    Moderator Alaskacanoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Sterling
    Posts
    1,450

    Default canoe

    When you come to a fork in the trail, take it!

    Rentals for Canoes, Kayaks, Rafts, boats serving the Kenai canoe trail system and the Kenai river for over 15 years. www.alaskacanoetrips.com

  10. #10

    Default

    That's an alumacraft. I have the same thing 17 1/2 feet long. It's a pretty good canoe but not as good as the grumman. Since it has a pointed end on both ends its hull speed is better with smaller motors. But it can't handle a 15. I think even a 6 hp would be a little big.

    I use a 2 1/2 on mine but I don't think I could go up the Tanana with it.
    Wasilla Real Estate News
    www.valleymarket.com

  11. #11

    Default 9.9 honda on 17' osage

    Don't know how different the 19 grumman is from the slightly wider transom and flared hull of the 17' Osage. think volumn is about the same. I was faced with same decision and went with 9.9 honda after running a older 15 Evenrude on my canoe. The 9.9 weighs 92 lbs to the 15 two strokes at 77lbs. since I am only 150 lbs wet I figured there was little difference. Couldn't tell the difference on water. Just got back from long trip on Yukon and way.... up a swift rocky side river. Lots of lining and running standing waves. Was worried about enough power several times to make it up strong flowing shoots but never ran out of power. Carried a pretty heavy load in full canoe with two people. Made 7.5 against the main flow of yukon loaded. I wanted the most dependable motor I could get to get me home and I trusted Honda's best. burned 7.5 galleons on 90 mile trip. Hondas have changed the 8hp. 9.9hp and 20hp in last year or so. I have also run Yamaha for years commercially but new ones seems to have problem with the auto choke and can be a starting nightmare. I am sure not all units have this problem.

  12. #12
    New member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    8

    Default great input

    Well,
    Good 'ole craigslist helped me with my decision, and my pocketbook; and just before the last weekend to hunt Minto management area. I picked up 9.9 yamaha four stroke for a single K, with less than 20 hrs on it. Ran very well with the power to go 13-14 mph - though, sadly, with no moose. Jumped a few small log jams with that nifty lift and thought we had escaped the hunting pressure, but alas, I underestimate the jet units over those logs. I guess next time I'll have to get hardy and portage the canoe and 91# motor past the 100' log jam that kept us only 30 some miles from the truck.
    Is that auto choke cause more problems than high idle with a cold motor - thus requiring patience before popping it into gear?
    Thanks for all the input... How much time(days) do you all take on these 100 mile trips?

  13. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    North Of Anchorage Alaska
    Posts
    36

    Default Horsepower For Freight Scanoe

    I found a couple of cool little engines to use on my scanoe...
    The first is a electric job that puts out 50Lbs, and it does real well for cruising around the lake checking things out. Had my girl, daughter, and self in it for a couple of hours at full-tilt, and battery lasted pretty good.

    the second one is a little Suzuki 2HP outboard that i used this weekend for a trip on Nancy lake. Loaded down with about 450Lbs worth of freight (Us and our gear) it did a great job, and cut across the water like a dream. (see pix)

    I was wondering how this would do with the same weight if I were heading up river.

    As you can see from the picture, the bow of the canoe is outta the water, even at 2/3 of the power. i was just a little learny of taking the power to max setting.

    Do I really need to get a bigger engine to get yuprive next summer?
    Attached Images Attached Images

  14. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    1,763

    Default size ENG ?

    if your canoe could take a 50 HP that would be good ,but your boat would sink the 2 HP will do but you will lack the ability to get out of some turns going down a small stream, if you are in a stream large stream [rivers] no problems, SID

  15. #15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Franke261 View Post
    I was wondering how this would do with the same weight if I were heading up river.

    As you can see from the picture, the bow of the canoe is outta the water, even at 2/3 of the power. i was just a little learny of taking the power to max setting.

    Do I really need to get a bigger engine to get yuprive next summer?
    Franke,
    You're not going to get up too big a flow with that 2hp. Putt around on a lake or a slow river though.

    When you're by yourself if you'll put some weight in the front you can get that nose down then you can open it up. Maybe 50 or 75lb of rocks.

    What Sid said. You'll run out of steering power with that 2hp going down a fast shoal with a turn or obstruction at the bottom. What response that 2 has won't be quick enough. Biggers better.
    From the pics looks like that boat ought to handle at least a 5hp or so.

  16. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    1,763

    Default size of motor

    A friend of mine had a boat like yours with a 7.5 Merk OB we went on a 80 mile trip [round trip] the only problem he had was he could stand up to move around, an he had to keep his body turned to stear did not have an extention on the tiller, an all he had was a block of wood to pick up the motor [no lift]
    SID

  17. #17
    Member walk-in's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    North Pole
    Posts
    771

    Default

    A few years back, I was trying to figure this out for myself. I also had a 19' Grumman. After doing some research, I decided on an 8 horse Johnson (2 stroke). It had the best power-weight ratio of any engine I looked at, and the price was reasonable. I loaded that canoe down pretty heavy many times, and that motor was always more than enough to propel me. It was extremely rare for me to even open the throttle up all the way, because it lifted the front end too much. Even going up/across the Tanana with a partner and everything we needed to set up moose camp, that motor was plenty capable.
    I would suggest that you do a couple things. Get a motor lift. Also install some kind of skeg guard and put a Stingray on your cavitation plate. You'll add a minimal amount of weight, but its worth it.

  18. #18
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    1,763

    Default motor

    I agree with WALK IN, but on a 19 ft grumman's a 10 / 15 is the best because it will go a little faster on open water an coming down streams [small] you need the get up an go power to get out of a spot or two you WILLget into on the turns .
    I was down the tyone river where the tyone river an tyone creek come together there was a 19 ft. with 3 HP it took him 9 hrs to get there where a 15 hp will get you there in about 5 hrs this is from the parking lot on Lake Louise an yes under full speed the bow will go up an the stearn will go down so you put more weight in bow to hold it down, that is one of the reasons that a 19 ft is what you want, you stand up to run so you can see in front of the canoe, this is very inportent when running small strems, you can see what is ahead of you.
    but lets face it you get what ever your pocket book can afford an make do with it,
    I don't know about the Osage canoe never had one, but they do look good,

    my 2 cts SID

  19. #19

    Default

    I had a buddy that ran a 18 ft Grumman Freightor with an 8hp Yamaha 2 stroke motor and custom lift. We ran many interior river with it with no issues save one, which was the Kanuti. We have run the Tanana, Hess Creek, Chatanika River, Chena River, Salcha River, Koykuk River, and few others. I think the 9.9 would be ideal but the 8 worked well for our needs.

  20. #20

    Default

    Hey (Achillesman), I don't have a 19' canoe so im not sure what the diffrence is between it and a 16' canoe as far as motor and performance.
    My (Pelican Byou) i used on the little sue once with a 2 stroke 9.8hp Merc and it had plenty of go in it up that river. I would guess around 15-20 mph upstream speed at WOT. It was loaded fairly light though. Me, fishing gear, 5 gal. can of gas and my son at around 120 lbs. (in the front seat). If wondering, yes the bow still came up! Best part of the trip though was when i checked the 2 gallon gas tank i was using at the end of the trip. During about a 6 hour period with stops and goes. We only burned an inch of fuel out of that tank.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •