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Thread: Measure 4, what happened?

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    Member ysr_racer's Avatar
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    Default Measure 4, what happened?

    I was in AK about 2 weeks ago and saw this on TV.

    How did the vote go?
    brad g.
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    It failed around 60% to 40%?

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    Member ysr_racer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fishwhacker View Post
    It failed around 60% to 40%?
    Is that good or bad? Are they going ahead with the mine?
    brad g.
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    Gov. Sarah Palin cut a deal to get the VP spot. In return, she opposed Measure 4 at the 11th hour. In the end, it failed largely due to her last minute opposition.

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    Any reference for the 11th hour deal?? Haven't heard that one yet? 4 was going down without Sarah's support.

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    That is funny. 4 was going down no matter what one person has to say.


    What happened to measure 4 is than more people in Alaska have a brain than dont.

    The same ones who voted yes on 4 are the same ones that keep trying to legalize dope. :stir:
    "You have given out too much reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later".

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    Default Measure 4, what happened?

    As the loud rhythmic poets known as AC/DC would say....................

    Shot Down In Flames.

    The same ones who voted yes on 4 are the same ones that keep trying to legalize dope. :stir:
    That's not quite right. I was adamently opposed to 4 and think we need to stop or cut back the WoD.
    Now what ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by yukon View Post
    Any reference for the 11th hour deal?? Haven't heard that one yet? 4 was going down without Sarah's support.
    How else can you explain McCain picking Palin?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ysr_racer View Post
    Is that good or bad? Are they going ahead with the mine?
    Depends on who you ask. The mine is just in a planning stage at this point....they still have a long way to go on planning and getting the necessary permits. Measure 4 would have theoretically made it more difficult, but I'm not convinced it would have mattered much one way or another. Basically, we already have pretty strict mining discharge laws, and 4 would have been kind of redundant. The folks in Bristol Bay largely don't want it or the risk of potential disaster to their fish stocks, and it's hard to blame them for that. I don't think that makes them dumb or hippies or anything else. Like everyone else, they are trying to protect their way of life, just like proponents of the mine want to create a way of life for themselves or others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freight Dog View Post
    Gov. Sarah Palin cut a deal to get the VP spot. In return, she opposed Measure 4 at the 11th hour. In the end, it failed largely due to her last minute opposition.
    I think Sarah was aginst 4 to begin with she is into promoteing work in OUR State
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    I think one of the major things that happened (not that it ever really looked like it would pass) was opponets of 4 (I was one) finally got people to see that you don't impliment new state wide regulations to try & stop one local project (that may or may not happen).
    Vance in AK.

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    You just had to stop and read it. At first I was for 4, but it was the catch (no PUN) phrase used. I was for the salmon. But I wouldnt vote without doing my research. In the end I was against 4 and thats all she wrote.

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    Default cannot judge how people feel based on the vote

    Measure 4 was not conceived very well and it became a symbol rather than something of value. The measure would change very little. First, the Clean Water Act is harder on mines than measure 4 would have been. The Clean Water Act makes discharge permits evaluate impact on all aquatic life and wildlife, not just salmon.

    The measure trusts the State of Alaska to set the standards. The State in either case was the final authority pending a court challenge. If the measure had pasted some would say it made it easier to go to court. That is true for State court if they did not make valid standards but not federal court where the Clean Water Act will still prevail so court challenges will not go away.

    What this election did was see if Alaskans wanted to give a mandate to mining or not. While winning the measure the mandate for mining was not there. People voted against the measure for reasons other than just supporting mining. They realized that the measure was poorly written and they trusted the state to do the right thing - which is resource protection is a bad choice but that is a different topic.

    However, what the measure also did was send a message to the mining industry and the State that 40% of the people choose to have salmon in their culture and lives. That is a powerful statement and those in the mining industry and state regulators should take note.

    So in my mind it was a win for salmon in the long term, not a mandate for mining as some had hoped, and the start of a long battle on Pebble.

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    Member Big Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freight Dog View Post
    How else can you explain McCain picking Palin?

    They were saving their fire against freight companies that pollute the air we breath. The two of them want to end the lives and jobs of everybody that moves freight.

    I wonder if the shoe gets a little tight when they get close to your livelihood?

    Of course this is not something most Democrats can conceive.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tryants." (Thomas Jefferson

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    Default interesting side note...

    Measure 4 was ill conceived and poorly written- I think it would have fined a miner if he spat a chew into a salmon stream. When Pebble becomes a reality, if it does, I hope the penalties will be higher than the gain, otherwise we'll get another Red Dog. It employs a lot of people, and is very valuable to the state, but the costs to the future could be very high. They were in the news earlier this summer because they average better than 3 clean water violations a day. Rather than discontinuing the violations, they pay the fines and keep on keeping on. It is obviously more profitable to pollute and pay the fine than pay the cost of cleaner operation. (http://www.adn.com/money/industries/...ry/407833.html)

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    Its not like ballot measures mean anything, look at the first two fly by shooting bans, and the cruise ship ocean ranger initiatives...
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

  17. #17

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    Interesting how so many were going to be against it anyway.....but it took 20 million advertising dollars by the mining industry to defeat it...that is the equivalent per capita rate as some business spending 3/4 of a billion dollars to defeat an initiative in California.....a pretty mind boggling expense for something "poorly written". An observation only.

    Brian

    PS: I work in Wasilla and love Sarah Palin's attitude and politics but did lose respect for her by coming out and stating she "personally" was going to vote against the measure....even Frankie M wouldn't have done that....

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    Hey, I voted yes on 4 and no dope. Don't group us all together :-)

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    Default Not started by "Bristol Bay"

    Quote Originally Posted by coho slayer View Post
    The folks in Bristol Bay largely don't want it or the risk of potential disaster to their fish stocks, and it's hard to blame them for that. I don't think that makes them dumb or hippies or anything else. Like everyone else, they are trying to protect their way of life, just like proponents of the mine want to create a way of life for themselves or others.
    This ballot measure was initiated by a wealthy lodge owner who rallied emotions because he didn't want it in his back yard, and he had the means ($$$) to get the opposition rolling.

    My family owned a lodge out there when I was a kid and it holds a special place in my heart, but the states economy is based on resource development and let's face it, it's not doing us any good in the ground. Measure 4 would have all but made it absolutely impossible to even consider a safe way to pull it out. Not to mention shutting down revenue sources like Red Dog.
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    Default Pebble is sooo sooo un wise.....

    Water quality is already going down hill from all the coring that has been going on there for 10+ years...... Sad, that ppl who should know better don't know when to say when..... Pebble isn't worth the chance of ruining Kvichak watershed and Upper Nushagak watershed.... This isn't an issue about economic's... If it was it would be easy... NO PEBBLE MINE!!!

    Bristol Bay fisheries are worth far more to Alaskans then the total revunue from all the metal... Besides, most Alaskan's will never see a dime from Pebble.


    Quote Originally Posted by AK Tubes View Post
    This ballot measure was initiated by a wealthy lodge owner who rallied emotions because he didn't want it in his back yard, and he had the means ($$$) to get the opposition rolling.

    My family owned a lodge out there when I was a kid and it holds a special place in my heart, but the states economy is based on resource development and let's face it, it's not doing us any good in the ground. Measure 4 would have all but made it absolutely impossible to even consider a safe way to pull it out. Not to mention shutting down revenue sources like Red Dog.

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