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Thread: great caliber

  1. #1
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    Default great caliber

    So what does everyone think of the .458 win mag.I have all the popular hunting calibers and I think the .458 is flexable to the handloader who can manage the power and it's knockdown power is tremendous.So let's hear some comments.

  2. #2

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    375 H&H does everything you mentioned...just even better

  3. #3

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    I think it could be quite the hammer even throttled back to 45-70 levels with hard cast bullets.

  4. #4

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    .458Win Mag conjures up dreams of Alaska and Africa. +1 on cast bullets out of the 458Win Mag, the only rifle that left a scope mark on my forehead sighting in at the bench.
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    Member Matt's Avatar
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    I'd rather run a 458 Lott....

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    +1 for Matt.

    The published ballistics of the 458 Winchester Magnum, 500 grains at 2130 fps is impressive indeed. And though it is a much better stopper up close than the H&H it lacks the versatility of the older round.

    The 458 sucked in lots of sea water early in its career and almost went under because the ammo failed after long storage when loaded with the compressed load of fast ball powder (Developed for the 223/5.56 round). This powder would almost achieve the labeled velocity but not after it was compressed into a cake and baked in the African sun. This 458 load of partially inert powder failed to reach even pistol velocity according to some. Many PH's found failures in the 458 at the worst of times.

    I have never understood why back in 1956, when Winchester was making a rifle to handle the full length 375 and 300 H&H rounds, that they didn't make a longer 458. Just a little longer to allow the use of the 500 grain bullet, or even use a 450 grain bullet in that case would have been better. I know the original plan was to duplicate the 450 and 470 Nitro Express calibers ballistics but a slightly longer case would have made those ballistics possible and not required the compression of the propellant. Today with several powders like H322 and RL-7 we can get the 500 grain bullet to 2150 fps in 24" barrels without fear of compressed loads going sour on us.

    The development of Jack Lott sure does fix things up nicely though, making this 458 what it really should be and giving it impressive ballistics in a lower pressure load, ideal for hot climate hunting when the utmost in reliability of both gun and ammo is paramount. We can get the 500 grain bullets to 2250 fps or better and still stay below the 458 pressure levels of 2100 fps loads. This is what Winchester should have done. Consider also that before the 458 Win Mag hit the game fields there were, made on the full length H&H case, 450 magnums. The 450 Watts and even the slightly necked 450 Ackley were wildcatted rounds before the Winchester 458 caliber midget hit the fields, either would fit the same action. I guess even back then Winchester was wanting to make Short Magnums.
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  7. #7
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    I loaded my 458 with a 350 grain Barnes X at 2550 FPS. I thought this would be a bear thumper.

    If the throat in the rifle allows a longer O.A.L. then the velocity can be upped as well.
    "You have given out too much reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later".

  8. #8

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    I believe I can hunt any critter on the planet with my 405 win and 45-70 with my own loads, I have chosen to avoid retinal detachment by avoiding calibers like the 458~

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by beartooth View Post
    .458Win Mag conjures up dreams of Alaska and Africa. +1 on cast bullets out of the 458Win Mag, the only rifle that left a scope mark on my forehead sighting in at the bench.
    For me the 458 is just about the ultimate cast bullet rifle. Though I've pushed loads up to 1950 fps or so, in truth I shoot mostly in the 1350-1400 fps. All I've owned will shoot ragged holes at 100 yards with one cast bullet load or another.

    But if I was going after dangerous game, I'm in the same bucket with Matt and Murphy. I would want to push 500 grain bullets somewhere around 2250 fps. You might do that with cold weather loads, but I just haven't done enough hot weather shooting to convince myself that I can do it reliably with a 458 Winnie. Call it my lack of experience, but it's something I'd want to confirm for myself before shooting really big stuff with the 458.

    BTW- The brown bear guides I know vastly prefer the 375 H&H or one of the 416's. Most of their bear shooting is at the south end of a north-bound wounded bear leaving the country fast. The 458 has neither the trajectory nor the penetration for the kind of 300-400 range shooting they have to do sometimes. It's fine if the wounded bear is pointed in your direction and getting closer, but next to worthless if it's pointed the other way. All second-hand, but these guys have more experience than anyone shooting for fun.

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    Never had any experience with the 458 win mag,but I think the 375 H&H is about as big I can shoot accurately
    You really dont need bigger guns to kill any game animal,only application I can see for the really big calibers is like for an African PH as a stopper in close bush

  11. #11
    Member RMiller's Avatar
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    I dont think the 458 with 350 grain and 400 grain bullets is much different that dealing with the 375 H-H and 300 grain bullets.

    The 375 uses much more powder which is another big factor of recoil.
    "You have given out too much reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later".

  12. #12
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    I've had two 458 lotts, and still have a 500 Jeffrey.

    While the 458's are alot of fun and very capable, I think folks need to honest about one thing. When you launch a 500 gr bullet 2200-2300 fps from a hunting rifle of a reasonble weight of 10 pounds, you generate a signifigant level of recoil. I never flinched or was hurt by either 458, but had to concentrate to a much higher level before squezzing off a shot.

    With say a 338 or 375 you can shoot from any shooting position in the field and ignore the recoil. Not that they won't recoil, but it is at a managable level. The same cannot be said for the big 45's, as they will get all over you.

    Loaded with 350's @ 2400-2500 the 458's are *****cats and will take any and all AK game. But when you push the 500's as fast as they can go, it is an entirely different level of recoil.

    Everyone should have one once, it's a great learning experience. Personally I've chosen a 350 rem mag as my big AK critter hunting rifle. It's much lighter than the bigger guns, I can shoot it as well as a small bore from any position, and if a 225 gr @ 2700 fps won't kill it, the solution isn't more power, it's better shot placement. And I can assure you, bigger guns aren't easier to shoot better.

  13. #13

    Question Need?Maybe?

    Quote Originally Posted by svehunter View Post
    Never had any experience with the 458 win mag,but I think the 375 H&H is about as big I can shoot accurately
    You really dont need bigger guns to kill any game animal,only application I can see for the really big calibers is like for an African PH as a stopper in close bush
    C'mon Sve, what does NEED have to do with anything? If that's the case, we'd all be shooting 30-30's. What's one personal limit, doesn't necessasarily mean jack. It's all about WANT (not Joe either). You disappeared for awhile...where ya been?Ciao.
    If you like getting kicked by a mule...then you'll "love" shooting my .458.

  14. #14
    Member Matt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul H View Post
    Everyone should have one once, it's a great learning experience. Personally I've chosen a 350 rem mag as my big AK critter hunting rifle. It's much lighter than the bigger guns, I can shoot it as well as a small bore from any position, and if a 225 gr @ 2700 fps won't kill it, the solution isn't more power, it's better shot placement. And I can assure you, bigger guns aren't easier to shoot better.
    What rifle and what bullets are you running? I'm currently shooting 200-grain Hornady Interlock's in mine and they shoot great out of my model 70. Have you killed any critters with yours?

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    What rifle and what bullets are you running? I'm currently shooting 200-grain Hornady Interlock's in mine and they shoot great out of my model 70. Have you killed any critters with yours?
    I'm shooting 225gr. TSX at 2700fps. out of my Ruger mk.II All-weather and while I haven't shot anything with them other than steel rams yet I agree with Paul's assessment they ought to handle anything you draw down on as long you shoot them accurately.

  16. #16
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    Mind sharing your load for those TSX bullets?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maydog View Post
    C'mon Sve, what does NEED have to do with anything? If that's the case, we'd all be shooting 30-30's. What's one personal limit, doesn't necessasarily mean jack. It's all about WANT (not Joe either). You disappeared for awhile...where ya been?Ciao.
    Maydog I guess thats true,we all want to test our limits

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    Mind sharing your load for those TSX bullets?
    I was using Hodgdon Benchmark powder and Fed. 210 Primers Starting load is 54grs. w/a max of 57.0.

    Ramshot TAC is the velocity king according to BARNES w/2764fps possible out of 20" barrel.

    here is a link to Barnes data:

    http://www.barnesbullets.com/images/...nMagnumWeb.pdf

    The Benchmark data came from a phone call with Ty at Barnes directly. I haven't tried the TAC yet but it along with the 200gr. TSX are on my list. Should be able to get close to 3000fps. out of my Ruger with it.

    If you have any more questions feel free to ask.

  19. #19

    Thumbs up what's up with this?

    Quote Originally Posted by klmn265 View Post
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    Let's see...if I pack about 400 (.458) cartridges loaded with 350 gr bullets and get into a firefight with, say a herd of jackrabbits, and shoot all my bullets, I will lose about 20 lbs in the time it takes to expend all my ammo. Humm, not too bad...something to ponder, and I like pondering.
    If you like getting kicked by a mule...then you'll "love" shooting my .458.

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