Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: Accubond or TSX??

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    564

    Default Accubond or TSX??

    I just worked up a couple of loads for the 300 RUM. 180gr accubond at just over 3200fps, moa accuracy, or 168gr TSX at just under 3300fps, also sub MOA accuracy. I'm leaning towards the 168gr TSX, penetration should be at least as good or better than the accubond but BC is quite a bit lower. What would you all use?

  2. #2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thebear_78 View Post
    I just worked up a couple of loads for the 300 RUM. 180gr accubond at just over 3200fps, moa accuracy, or 168gr TSX at just under 3300fps, also sub MOA accuracy. I'm leaning towards the 168gr TSX, penetration should be at least as good or better than the accubond but BC is quite a bit lower. What would you all use?
    The 180gr TSX should be considered. I am using RL-22 with the 180gr TSX in my 300Wby and getting over 3200fps and I would choose it over the 168gr TSX. Now that said, the 168gr TSX will out penetrate the 180gr Accubond. I find the TSX much better than the 180gr Accubond and I have used both the TSX and Accubond in my 300Wby and 300Win mag on game and would choose the TSX especially considering the velocities and for sure with heavy large game.
    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
    THE MIND OF A SCHOLAR
    THE HEART OF A CHILD
    THE HIDE OF A RHINOCEROS

  3. #3

    Default

    I depends on what kind of shooting you want out of it. The 300 RUM is a great long range cartridge. A lot of guys get 3200 fps with a 200 gr AB in front of about 95 gr of Retumbo (work up) out of a 26" bbl. You might also consdier the 180 E-Tip. If I was going with a 168 Barnes, I would go with TTSX, but I wouldn't recommend that light of a bullet for the 300 RUM. You would probably be pushing it in excess of 3500 fps and the TSX petals tend to shed over 3200 or so. The E-Tips are a little tougher than the TSX's.

    My votes...

    1- 200 AB
    2- 180 E-Tip

  4. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    564

    Default

    I had been wanting to try out those 200gr accubonds but they didn't have any at the warehouse. I already had some 180 partitions, 180 accubonds, 180 ballistic tips, 165 and 168 Barnes TSX and a few other 180 bullets, speer, sierra, and rem corelokts. If figured of what I had on hand the 168gr TSX and 180 accubonds would be the best for moose and griz. I can't imagine that 12gr of difference between the 168 and 180 TSX will matter much on game. I had a couple boxes of the 168s and they do shoot very well. I didn't puch matters with velosity on the 168s, running right at 3280fps and over a grain below max. I don't have a lot of time for load development before season so I'll stick with these two for now. They both shoot pretty much to the same point of impact so I can interchange them at will.

  5. #5

    Default

    The TSX bullets are excellent in the terminal wound ballistics as well as in the accuracy department as this 300 yard group will attest.




    I use the 180 TSX out of my 300 win and took this Antelope with one shot at a Lasered 777 yards



  6. #6

    Default

    jwp500, great shooting on the target and the antelope. I use only the 180gr TSX in my 300Wby and nothing and I mean nothing I have shot with it took more than one shot up close or far off. The E Tip is not tougher because up close it will not preform better than the TSX at these fast velocities because the bullet is more brittle than the TSX. Also the E-tip will reach max pressures before you can get to the velocity of a TSX due to it's hardness and lack of grooves to provide relief from the bearing surface. The TTSX and the TSX have no rival except possibly the GS line of bullets. Twelve grains difference between the 168gr TSX an the 180gr TSX will make a difference in taking larger game. Here are 100yds and 200yds targets using the 180gr TSX moving 3272fps out of my Custom 300Wby mag.




    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
    THE MIND OF A SCHOLAR
    THE HEART OF A CHILD
    THE HIDE OF A RHINOCEROS

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by beartooth View Post
    The E Tip is not tougher because up close it will not preform better than the TSX at these fast velocities because the bullet is more brittle than the TSX. Also the E-tip will reach max pressures before you can get to the velocity of a TSX due to it's hardness and lack of grooves to provide relief from the bearing surface.
    Beartooth, you may be right on this, but I have seen a picture of both the E-Tip and TSX after opening at a speed of about 3200 or 3300 fps as I recall. (wish I could find that pic) The TSX petals were gone and the E-Tip's were still intact. It was a Nosler comparison, so yeah, it shuld be taken with a gr of salt. And I would agree that since the E-Tip is an alloy it will be more brittle than the all copper TSX, but... there is a trade off. The TSX with softer metal *appears* to loose petals at lower velociteis than the E-Tip.

    You may be and probably are right about the pressures vs the bearing surface of the E-Tip compared to the TSX. Nosler even warned me about the bearing surface when working up a load saying to keep an eye on pressures. However, once again there is a tradeoff with the E-Tips greater BC.

    Another thing is that the E-Tips open a little more than the TSX which can be good and bad. They will do more damage and transfer more energy, but will they fully penetrate and exit? My guess is they will exit at short and medium ranges with good velocities. Time will tell.

    I'll be shooting some E-Tips in the not too distant future and will post the results.

    I think we'll see some field results this hunting season too from other shooters. It will be intersting to say the least

    PS... Watching a nice whitetail buck in velvet right now out the kitchen window

  8. #8
    Member ripnlip's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Eagle River
    Posts
    291

    Default

    I cant wait to see your results w/ the E-tips. I am very interested in trying these new bullets. I have found that the TTSX or TSX dont shoot too well in my rifle due to excess copper fouling so maybe the E-tips will shoot a bit better.

    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaRifleman View Post
    Beartooth, you may be right on this, but I have seen a picture of both the E-Tip and TSX after opening at a speed of about 3200 or 3300 fps as I recall. (wish I could find that pic) The TSX petals were gone and the E-Tip's were still intact. It was a Nosler comparison, so yeah, it shuld be taken with a gr of salt. And I would agree that since the E-Tip is an alloy it will be more brittle than the all copper TSX, but... there is a trade off. The TSX with softer metal *appears* to loose petals at lower velociteis than the E-Tip.

    You may be and probably are right about the pressures vs the bearing surface of the E-Tip compared to the TSX. Nosler even warned me about the bearing surface when working up a load saying to keep an eye on pressures. However, once again there is a tradeoff with the E-Tips greater BC.

    Another thing is that the E-Tips open a little more than the TSX which can be good and bad. They will do more damage and transfer more energy, but will they fully penetrate and exit? My guess is they will exit at short and medium ranges with good velocities. Time will tell.

    I'll be shooting some E-Tips in the not too distant future and will post the results.

    I think we'll see some field results this hunting season too from other shooters. It will be intersting to say the least

    PS... Watching a nice whitetail buck in velvet right now out the kitchen window

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaRifleman View Post
    Beartooth, you may be right on this, but I have seen a picture of both the E-Tip and TSX after opening at a speed of about 3200 or 3300 fps as I recall. (wish I could find that pic) The TSX petals were gone and the E-Tip's were still intact. It was a Nosler comparison, so yeah, it shuld be taken with a gr of salt. And I would agree that since the E-Tip is an alloy it will be more brittle than the all copper TSX, but... there is a trade off. The TSX with softer metal *appears* to loose petals at lower velociteis than the E-Tip.

    You may be and probably are right about the pressures vs the bearing surface of the E-Tip compared to the TSX. Nosler even warned me about the bearing surface when working up a load saying to keep an eye on pressures. However, once again there is a tradeoff with the E-Tips greater BC.

    Another thing is that the E-Tips open a little more than the TSX which can be good and bad. They will do more damage and transfer more energy, but will they fully penetrate and exit? My guess is they will exit at short and medium ranges with good velocities. Time will tell.

    I'll be shooting some E-Tips in the not too distant future and will post the results.

    I think we'll see some field results this hunting season too from other shooters. It will be intersting to say the least

    PS... Watching a nice whitetail buck in velvet right now out the kitchen window
    I think you are right about this season bringing some practical evidence to the table. Especially on heavy game where bone as well as muscle has to be traveled through. I am even going to try the 165gr E-Tip in my 06 but do not expect the velocities I have obtained with the Sierra HPBT or the TSX 168gr due to the pressure spike taking place earlier with less powder with the E-tip.
    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
    THE MIND OF A SCHOLAR
    THE HEART OF A CHILD
    THE HIDE OF A RHINOCEROS

  10. #10
    Member shphtr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Chugiak
    Posts
    1,376

    Default

    I have been shooting my 300 Canadian (predecessor to the 300 RUM)for about a decade and have literally put thousands of rounds down the barrel including many many Barnes. I have accurate loads for both the 180 gr TSX and the 168 gr. Across the board the 168 is consistently more accurate (MOA vs 1/2 MOA) and about 100 to maybe 150 fps faster. I have often contemplated the significant differences between these two bullets and their use in my rifle. My final conclusion is when I sheep hunt and there is a sig chance of a bear encounter (Alaska) I go with the 180's, where the shots tend to be much longer and the chance of a bear encounter almost nonexistent (sheep and ibex in Asia) I go with the 168's. I have purchased but not yet worked up loads for the MRX or TSTX in both weights.

  11. #11

    Default Earlier post on 30 cal bullet test in RUM

    I've done some load development for the E tip in the 300 RUM. Here is my experience.
    Remington AWR 300 RUM, Leupold 2.5-10 LPS, 26" barrel.
    Rem Brass
    F215M
    97.0 Retumbo
    3.65 OAL
    Crono Ohler 33
    Low 3345
    Hi 3377
    Avg 3360
    ES 32
    SD 13
    Normally with the RUMs I shoot 3 shot groups due to barrel heat, but in this case it was shooting so well I wanted to try a 5 shot group from a cold barrel after I had it sighted in.
    The results at 100 yds. for 5 shots were.
    First 3 measured .63, 4th shot .75 5th shot 1.08.

    I also tested terminal performance in water compared to other bullets.
    This is the first monolithic type bullet I've tried at 300 RUM speed that did not always loose it's pedals. Some time it shed them all, sometimes it shed none (wt 178.2). Apparently 3360 is right on the edge for this bullet. For comparison sake, 180 FS and 180 barnes always shed their petals at this speed IME.
    The FS shed them earliest after impact. The E-tip shed them last and the barnes is in between. Not surprising that the FS penetrated most.
    Overall penetration most to least:
    180 FS
    180 Barnes
    180 E-tip
    200 NAB & 200 Npt (@ 3200), 180 NPG (@ 3330), 180 TBBC (@3300)
    these 4 essentially tied
    180 NAB (@ 3320) & 180 Npt (@ 3400) essentially tied
    180 Swift (@ 3320)
    180 HIB (@ 3370)
    Then conventional bullets, Speer, Sierra, Hornady @ 3400 all separate.
    Even going from the conventional bullets to the Hor IB doubles penetration in my tests.
    In the tests I found that at these high speeds the highest weight retention does not always mean more penetration. Larger frontal area on certain bullets of course limits penetration.
    Swift and TBBC consistently have the highest weight retention.

    I've shot a few 180 E tip factory in the 300 WSM but have not thoroughly tested them yet in the WSM. I strongly suggest you drop back a couple grains for the Etip compared to most other bullets. I still got the speed.

    Thus far I've fired about 130 Etips, very little fouling. No more than a conventional nosler.

    Changing the seating depth from 3.62 to 3.65 cut group size in half. Something to keep in mind.

    I've also tried just a few in my 300 RUM CDL. Slightly more speed. Have not tested for accuracy yet. I've primarily stuck with 200 grainers in it.

    Overall, the Etip looks like a very promising bullet.
    However for the last several years I've used accubonds with excellent results. After testing the etip in water I'm using it hunting this year.
    Last edited by 375AIJGS; 08-16-2008 at 00:30. Reason: typo

  12. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    564

    Default

    Here is a group I shot yeterday with the 168gr TSX The two shots on the right were before I adjusted the scope, then 3 shot group in the middle and finally the last was after another adjustment, I was out of this load so couldn't fire another for grouping. I loaded up 30 more and am going to try it again next weekend. I doubt I can do much better for a load before season starts.


  13. #13
    Member shphtr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Chugiak
    Posts
    1,376

    Default

    Accuracy looks great. I sometimes shoot 168 TSX in my 300 Canadian. Looks like you are currently sighted in for in excess of a 300 yd zero...depending on your specific velocity and your point of aim. The 168's are exceeding accurate (and consistent with a very low SD on the chrono for 5 shot groups) for me also. I have had the best results with RL 25 in my rifle.

  14. #14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by beartooth View Post
    I am even going to try the 165gr E-Tip in my 06 but do not expect the velocities I have obtained with the Sierra HPBT or the TSX 168gr due to the pressure spike taking place earlier with less powder with the E-tip.
    I believe the only .308 E-Tips currently available are 150 and 180 gr.

  15. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    564

    Default

    I tried that 168gr TSX load out at 300 yards the other day and was really impressed. If there was any doubt of trying a new load anytime soon it has now few out the window. The farthest shot the the right was a called flyer the rest all felt really good. Thats pretty darn impressive, I've spent a lot of money to get rifles this accurate before. I was also surprized to see that it was still 2" high at 300 yards.


  16. #16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 375AIJGS View Post
    I've done some load development for the E tip in the 300 RUM. Here is my experience.
    Remington AWR 300 RUM, Leupold 2.5-10 LPS, 26" barrel.
    Rem Brass
    F215M
    97.0 Retumbo
    3.65 OAL
    Crono Ohler 33
    Low 3345
    Hi 3377
    Avg 3360
    ES 32
    SD 13
    Normally with the RUMs I shoot 3 shot groups due to barrel heat, but in this case it was shooting so well I wanted to try a 5 shot group from a cold barrel after I had it sighted in.
    The results at 100 yds. for 5 shots were.
    First 3 measured .63, 4th shot .75 5th shot 1.08.

    I also tested terminal performance in water compared to other bullets.
    This is the first monolithic type bullet I've tried at 300 RUM speed that did not always loose it's pedals. Some time it shed them all, sometimes it shed none (wt 178.2). Apparently 3360 is right on the edge for this bullet. For comparison sake, 180 FS and 180 barnes always shed their petals at this speed IME.
    The FS shed them earliest after impact. The E-tip shed them last and the barnes is in between. Not surprising that the FS penetrated most.
    Overall penetration most to least:
    180 FS
    180 Barnes
    180 E-tip
    200 NAB & 200 Npt (@ 3200), 180 NPG (@ 3330), 180 TBBC (@3300)
    these 4 essentially tied
    180 NAB (@ 3320) & 180 Npt (@ 3400) essentially tied
    180 Swift (@ 3320)
    180 HIB (@ 3370)
    Then conventional bullets, Speer, Sierra, Hornady @ 3400 all separate.
    Even going from the conventional bullets to the Hor IB doubles penetration in my tests.
    In the tests I found that at these high speeds the highest weight retention does not always mean more penetration. Larger frontal area on certain bullets of course limits penetration.
    Swift and TBBC consistently have the highest weight retention.

    I've shot a few 180 E tip factory in the 300 WSM but have not thoroughly tested them yet in the WSM. I strongly suggest you drop back a couple grains for the Etip compared to most other bullets. I still got the speed.

    Thus far I've fired about 130 Etips, very little fouling. No more than a conventional nosler.

    Changing the seating depth from 3.62 to 3.65 cut group size in half. Something to keep in mind.

    I've also tried just a few in my 300 RUM CDL. Slightly more speed. Have not tested for accuracy yet. I've primarily stuck with 200 grainers in it.

    Overall, the Etip looks like a very promising bullet.
    However for the last several years I've used accubonds with excellent results. After testing the etip in water I'm using it hunting this year.
    Thank you for taking the time to post this information. I read your post four times on four different days and thought a great deal about the performance of all three bullets and also my experience with the Accubond and TSX in my 300Wby.

    I can't wait for my 30-06 to come back so I can compare the E-Tip with the 168gr TSX and also will try them both in my 300Wby.

    I am going to do a penetration test using gallon water jugs set up in a row and see just how far each penetrates and how the petals hold up.

    Your information is leading me to believe that the E-Tip just might have a real future in the field and will do well on game with good wound production.

    Thanks again for the time and effort to post your information.
    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
    THE MIND OF A SCHOLAR
    THE HEART OF A CHILD
    THE HIDE OF A RHINOCEROS

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •