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Thread: Little su Bag limit ?????

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    Member RMiller's Avatar
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    Default Little su Bag limit ?????

    So the Regulation reads that a person who keeps a bag limit of other salmon 16"+ must stop fishing. This applies to river mile 32.5 on down.


    The regs state that a bag limit of OTHER salmon is 3 salmon 16" or more and only two can be silvers.

    I do not stop fishing until I get a bag limit of OTHER salmon which means I catch two silvers then go for a Chum.

    HERE IS THE PROBLEM......there is a park ranger giving tickets to people for fishing after catching two silvers.

    The regs specify that a bag limit of OTHER salmon is two silvers + (Chum or Pink or Red)

    The ranger also stated he could take fishing rods and eyeballed the G loomis pretty hard on the ticket I heard of.

    I dont have the regs in my hand but I believe I remember the wording fairly close.

    How do you interpret this reg?

  2. #2

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    Here's the problem. You catch 2 silvers and keep them, you are trying to catch a chum or what ever to fill the limit of three salmon. What do you do if a silver inhales your hook and is wounded in the gills? You can't keep it cause you already have 2, the limit, so now you are stuck with an over limit of silvers. I interpret it as once you catch and keep 2 silvers you are done fishing for any other species of Salmon. My solution is keep one silver and fish for your other species. Once you get that then fill the limit with your last silver. You can catch and release a silver as long as you do not take it out of the water to remove the hook. As far as taking gear I don't think a Parky has that authority to do that. I believe only Fish and Wildlife Protection can do that. I may be wrong.

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    Member RMiller's Avatar
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    I like your reasoning but how is a bag limit of other salmon only two fish.

    As far as what to do with the silver that inhalded the hook. You would do the same thing when that happens in any catch and release waters. You let it go. I have never had a fish die on the hook.

    Personally I quit using eggs once I get my two silvers. Actually I usually switch to lures after the first silver to have some fun with a vibrax. After I get two silvers I go single hook barbless.

    A couple times my kids have had their two silvers in two casts so I make them use lures after.

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    I sent you a private message Hope it goes

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    Quote Originally Posted by Retired Jim View Post
    Here's the problem. You catch 2 silvers and keep them, you are trying to catch a chum or what ever to fill the limit of three salmon. What do you do if a silver inhales your hook and is wounded in the gills? You can't keep it cause you already have 2, the limit, so now you are stuck with an over limit of silvers. I interpret it as once you catch and keep 2 silvers you are done fishing for any other species of Salmon. My solution is keep one silver and fish for your other species. Once you get that then fill the limit with your last silver. You can catch and release a silver as long as you do not take it out of the water to remove the hook. As far as taking gear I don't think a Parky has that authority to do that. I believe only Fish and Wildlife Protection can do that. I may be wrong.
    It seems that if the rule is that you stop fishing, the regs are pretty clear when that is required. For example, in most areas for king fishing, if you keep a king, you are not supposed to go fish any other waters that hold kings on that same day. Thus, although it would be a very long day, you technically could not catch a ship creek king, then go chase dollies on the kenai on the same day. I don't recall seeing any such requirement when it comes to the 3 fish/2 silver rule.
    Never count your days, but rather, make all of your days count.

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    To me the reg is very clear. Keep three OTHER salmon and your done.

    There are similiar regs for rockfish and grouse.

    Some areas you can shoot 15 grouse but only two can be ruffed grouse.

    You can keep 10 rockfish but only 2 can be non-pelagic and so forth.

    Five rainbows but only one can be over 20".

    In none of these senarios do you have a full bag when you get to the lesser restriction.

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    This is the reg that states you must stop fishing after a bag limit of OTHER salmon is retained.

    • A person who takes a bag limit of OTHER salmon 16” or longer from the Little Susitna River
    downstream of the ADF&G marker at river mile 32.5 may not fish for any species of fish in the
    Little Susitna River that same day.

    --

    This shows that you may release silvers so long as they are kept in the water.

    • A coho salmon removed from the water shall be retained. No person may remove from the
    water a coho salmon he/she intends to release.

    http://www.sf.adfg.state.ak.us/state.../SCknikarm.pdf

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    Other means other than king... So if you take you limit of coho salmon (2) you must stop fishing. This regulation was enacted because of the 75% C&R mortality of cohos in the little su.
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

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    An example of this mornings trip on the Little Su.....

    10 minutes into fishing and I had "my" two silvers in the boat. Time to make a sandwich and enjoy the rain. Buddy with me hit his first silver (landed), and then a chum (landed), and then finished his limit with his last silver.

    I reckon once you have your two silver's landed then why kill more fish? By fighting them you tire the fish and reduce their chance of survival to spawn or worse then inhale the hook and rupture their gillplates.

    You hit it right on the head with your quote......

    A person who takes a bag limit of OTHER salmon 16 or longer from the Little Susitna River downstream of the ADF&G marker at river mile 32.5 may not fish for any species of fish in the
    Little Susitna River that same day.

    So the regs are fairly clear.....bag limit = no more fishing regardless if you plan on releasing them or not.

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    Default Ambiguous reg

    I actually called the Palmer F&G office on this one a few weeks ago, the person that answered the phone there said after catching and keeping 2 coho on the Little Su you can keep fishing the Little Su for your 3rd salmon (which can be a chum, pink, or sockeye) but as soon as you keep that 3rd salmon you are done for the day. However, when I was out on a guide boat a few weeks ago, the guide required us to stop fishing after keeping a 2nd coho.

    My personal interpretation (based on the wording) is that a bag limit is 3 salmon and you can keep fishing until you keep 3 salmon (of course only 2 of these can be coho).

    Although chummy's are yummy, they are not worth getting a ticket for!

  11. #11
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    A bag limit of OTHER salmon equals three fish. With a stipulation of what the three fish may consist of.

    Other salmon 16 or longer . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .3 per day/3 in possession
    only 2 per day/2 in possession may
    be coho (silver) salmon

    -----------

    The 75% mortality was done by the survey takers in the F&G boats. I had never and still have never seen a dead silver in the little su. Except for the year the survey was done. I saw at least four floaters and it was very strange. One time I came around a corner and saw a dead silver twitching in shallow water about 30' behind the F&G boat, the guys in the boat looked like they had just got caught with their pants down.

  12. #12

    Default bag limit

    Bag limit is 2 Coho. I have all clients stop fishing when they kill 2. My brother and I do not release many due to mortality. I have seen lots of dead Coho on low clear water years. I know for a fact every Trooper and the park ranger will give you a ticket if you keep fishing after 2 Coho in the boat. My clients and I get checked neary every day.

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    wbooth, I am telling you dont let the law do that. The bag limit of other salmon is not just two silvers, it is a combination of 3 salmon other than Kings. Of course you can do what ever you on your trips.

    This easy for me to say as my income is not on the line.

    I am trying to get this cleared up for you guys.

    ---------------

    I once had a State Trooper take my fish and give me a ticket for keeping three silvers at the Eklutna tailrace. The general regulations state that in unit two = Other salmon 16” or longer . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .3 per day/3 in possession
    only 2 per day/2 in possession may
    be coho (silver) salmon

    At that time the exceptions for Eklutna were a one setence statement that said the bag limit for other salmon ...3per day/ 3 in possession (without the stipulation for the 2 silvers).

    As soon as I got home I got a call from the Trooper who said they were coming to my house to give me back my fish and take the ticket back.

    The reason was that after asking three other Troopers what the reg for Eklutna was and getting three different answers the Trooper issuing the ticket felt I should not be cited.

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    wbooth is way right,once you retain a 2 silver limit the rod is put up.......wording should be better written....... Mr. booth i'm glad to see your on the board.....

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    RMiller,

    There is something in the regs (I don't have them in front of me...) about after you have kept two cohos you are done fishing. If you want to make the three fish limit of "other salmon", you have to catch and keep your pink, red, chum before you keep that second silver.

    As AKPM said, silvers don't handle catch/release very well and a high percentage die shortly after release.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKmud View Post
    RMiller,

    There is something in the regs (I don't have them in front of me...) about after you have kept two cohos you are done fishing. If you want to make the three fish limit of "other salmon", you have to catch and keep your pink, red, chum before you keep that second silver.

    As AKPM said, silvers don't handle catch/release very well and a high percentage die shortly after release.
    Show me that part in the regs and I will stop but until then the crusade is on.

    Here is my email that I sent. I ask others to join me please. sfreg2@fishgame.state.ak.us
    To whom it may concern,

    There seems to be State Troopers and Park Rangers who are issuing tickets for fishing after keeping two silvers in the little Susitna River below river mile 32.5.

    The regulations are clear in that :

    A person who takes a bag limit of other salmon 16 or longer from the Little Susitna River downstream of the ADF&G marker at river mile 32.5 may not fish for any species of fish in the Little Susitna River that same day.

    It is also clear that a bag a bag limit of other salmon is three salmon only two can be silver salmon.

    The Palmer fish and game office has stated that if a person retains two silvers they may fish for the third fish but the person may not retain a silver. Once the third fish is retained then the person must stop fishing.

    Is it possible to put out an emergency order stating that when two silvers are retained that a person may continue fishing to catch their third other salmon which can be a chum or a red or a pink? To stop the needless ticket writing which is sure to cause uneccessary disputes.



    Thank you,

    Ron Miller II

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    Moderator AKmud's Avatar
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    A person who takes a bag limit of other salmon 16 or longer from the Little Susitna River downstream of the ADF&G marker at river mile 32.5 may not fish for any species of fish in the Little Susitna River that same day.
    Other salmon 16 or longer . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .3 per day/3 in possession
    only 2 per day/2 in possession may
    be coho (silver) salmon
    I think this makes it pretty clear....

    If you keep your bag limit of coho (2), you have filled your bag limit of cohos (aka "other salmon") which then restricts you from fishing for that elusive pink, red or chum.

    It boils down to only keeping one silver until you bag that other salmon (not another coho) and then bagging that second coho.
    AKmud
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    The porcupine is a peacful animal yet God still thought it necessary to give him quills....

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    I also ask that no one believe the tale that silvers cannot handle being properly released.

    Releasing silvers is acceptable in every other drainage in the state and no one says a word.

    I digress though as releasing silvers is also clearly addressed......... No removal from the water.

  19. #19
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    It says a bag limit of OTHER salmon.

    And in the general regs a bag limit of other salmon is defined as 3 per day/ 3 in possession. Only two can be silvers.

    or as I see it .... only two of your 3 fish bag limit may be silvers.

    Two silvers is an incomplete bag limit of OTHER salmon.

    --

    The whole goal of this is to clear up the confusion for the betterment of all.

  20. #20
    Moderator AKmud's Avatar
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    Two silvers is a BAG LIMIT of silvers. Once you have kept your BAG LIMIT of silvers it is over for other salmon that day. If you want to keep a BAG LIMIT of three other salmon, don't keep your BAG LIMIT of silvers until you have caught one of the other classifications of salmon.

    A person who takes a bag limit (READ HERE 2 COHO) of other salmon 16 or longer from the Little Susitna River downstream of the ADF&G marker at river mile 32.5 may not fish for any species of fish in the Little Susitna River that same day.
    I think you are reading too much into this. It really is fairly simple if you approach it correctly. The law is written so people can't keep their two silvers and then catch/release silvers all day claiming they are trying to catch that last "other salmon".

    Believe me, I have tried this same angle to keep fishing once I have limited....
    AKmud
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    The porcupine is a peacful animal yet God still thought it necessary to give him quills....

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