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Thread: I Miss Isaac Walton

  1. #1
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    Default I Miss Isaac Walton

    I have lived in chugiak for 29 years now. I have been shooting at the Birchwood range most of my life. I read a posting about Rabbit Creek and saw that many people prefer the atmosphere at Birchwood. I am here to tell you that the rudeness, disrespect and poor treatment of patrons are as much common place here as well as in town. After my trip to the range today I have decided to discontinue my support of this range. Although a lifelong Birchwood resident, i'll drive to the valley from now on.

    I have no problem with range rules but don't respond well to harassment; especially by range officials.

  2. #2
    Member AKDoug's Avatar
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    Where are you going to go in the valley? All the way up here to Upper Susitna Shooters?

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fury View Post
    I have lived in chugiak for 29 years now. I have been shooting at the Birchwood range most of my life. I read a posting about Rabbit Creek and saw that many people prefer the atmosphere at Birchwood. I am here to tell you that the rudeness, disrespect and poor treatment of patrons are as much common place here as well as in town. After my trip to the range today I have decided to discontinue my support of this range. Although a lifelong Birchwood resident, i'll drive to the valley from now on.

    I have no problem with range rules but don't respond well to harassment; especially by range officials.
    If it was me, I would write a letter to the range office and voice my complaints and state my case. After all, at the cost of membership does not allow for abuse of by the employees. With the price of fuel what it is, I would not want to spend hundreds of extra dollars when I'm sure you could resolve the problem at the home range.

    By the way your actions will save others grief in the future.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tryants." (Thomas Jefferson

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    Perhaps. I know some folks in Fairbanks that drive down there for a canon shoot. I pass it on the train 4 days a week. I have a friend out in sutton and he's got good places.

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    Member alaskamonte's Avatar
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    Default Details?

    Quote Originally Posted by fury View Post
    I have lived in chugiak for 29 years now. I have been shooting at the Birchwood range most of my life. I read a posting about Rabbit Creek and saw that many people prefer the atmosphere at Birchwood. I am here to tell you that the rudeness, disrespect and poor treatment of patrons are as much common place here as well as in town. After my trip to the range today I have decided to discontinue my support of this range. Although a lifelong Birchwood resident, i'll drive to the valley from now on.

    I have no problem with range rules but don't respond well to harassment; especially by range officials.
    What Officials?

  6. #6
    Member shphtr's Avatar
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    Default

    Are there some new people working there? I have been going to Isaac Walton/Birchwood since the mid 80's without a problem...but as an EPM member I go during the off/closed hours there by missing the hoards of shooters...and from what it sounds like - "officials".

  7. #7

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    I went to Birchwood yesterday and everyone was polite and nice to me. What specifically happened?

  8. #8
    Member akhunter3's Avatar
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    What happened? I've been there a few times and only ever noticed one "official" and he didn't seem to be all that interested in causing trouble or anything else either than a good conversation. (Now some of the patrons on the other hand....geesh)


    I certainly hope they are not turning into another RC.






    Jon
    Nurse by night, Alaska adventurer by day!

  9. #9

    Default

    I'm curious as to what happened as well. I'm on my second EPM and never had a problem with management

    Quote Originally Posted by seant View Post
    I went to Birchwood yesterday and everyone was polite and nice to me. What specifically happened?

  10. #10
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    Default Specifically

    My family had arrived at the range last Saturday 10Am. There were 5 of us and we had gone to sight in a 30/06 and 2 .300 win mags. We had also taken along my M4, a couple .45s and a couple .22ís. We spent a couple hours on the 300 meter range with the hunting rifles and decided to move down so we could shoot the others. 3 lanes down from the 300 meter range we found a sign labeled Rifle Pistol. Upon arrival we found 3 other patrons using this 50 meter range with their AR style rifles. Again, the only indication here was RIFLE PISTOL. We shot here for about 2.5 hours. After about 200 rounds of .223, 100 rounds of .45 and well over 500 of .22 we were packing it up to head home. About this time some range employee, (official or not I donít know) he was employed there; stopped over and informed us that we needed to be shooting at the range to our left if we wanted to fire anything other than rim-fire rifles or pistols. I told him we were finished and had we known before hand we would have moved.
    This is when it got ridiculous. He then told us to leave immediately or he would kick us out. He said he didnít want to deal with people like us today; people who were unwilling to adhere to the range rules. I told him again that we were leaving. He said good get out of here. Upon packing everything up I took our targets back to the front desk and was asked by this individual to not come back.

  11. #11

    Default Commission only

    This is actually my first Post although I have been reading these Forums for several years. I am not an Alaskan and am more of a Fisherman than a hunter though I have owned many Rifles, Shotguns and Handguns over the
    years and have currently set up synthetic Stock Rem 700's in 300 Ultra Mag and 338 Mag and 300 win mags with VX1 or VX2's and have several stainless M70's in the same calibers, just for a long anticipated trip to Alaska before I am too old to enjoy it, I am 54 now and still work out just to hunt and fish. I am a Mortgage Banker and a Realtor and have worked as a consultant ie. commissioned salesperson for many years and feel confident that I can reply to this particular thread. Bottom line in my business if you do not respect the client you don't get paid. If everyone worked on commission the world would be a more polite and efficient place.

    I would not recommend leaving your home Rifle Range before
    you make the effort to call the range.
    Ask to speak with the owner/manager, Get his email address
    forward your description of the event. And I would imagine
    the problem will be solved by the employer who would consider
    his reputation and livelihood at stake.

    Of course if the guy who threw you out is the owner, by all means head up the road cause he sounds
    irrational......

  12. #12

    Default An individual thing

    I think this is a problem with this particular individual, not the range itself. Either this guy was being irrational or just plain mean, but like the others said, take care of it with the range.

  13. #13
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    Default

    And keep us posted if you do deal with them. I am on my second EPM membership there and am interested in seeing how they handle this.

  14. #14
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    Default Birchwood

    I spoke to the Rangemaster at Birchwood this morning regarding this incident, of which he was familiar, in fact he said he witnessed it. He had a vastly different version of the entire thing. So........................?

  15. #15

    Default

    My $.02

    I have been a EPM since day one of the program. 20 years? Has been a while...

    If anything, I would like to have seen some of the folks in the past running the range be a more cognizent of safety concerns.

    I have witnessed many conversataions between current folks working the range and customers. The employees have been professional and polite.

    I on the other hand get very irritated at people pointing guns at me anytime, people shooting and not impacting the berm (firing from the hip, shooting 22's at 10 yds on the 300m range) and people not making the firearm safe: bolt back, magazine out, safety on when approaching the line, before going down range and other times guns should be a made safe.

    People very often sweep the line with the muuzzle, point guns down range and handle guns when people are down range, place their target frames within the minimum stated distance limit causing richochets ( shooting 22lr at 10 yds on the 300m range, etc) , blast the gong with very power rifles from the bench multiple times (proving what?, it is 5 ft across after all..), leave all manner of crap on the range instead of putting in the dumpster, purposely shooting up target frames, shooting rocks off the top of the berms, climbing on the berms(!!)....

    I think I would get fired if I worked there, due to my lack of patience with people in those areas. Not to mention, this is the crazy season of once a year gun handlers.

    One incident, injury, perceived or actual, and I expect the whole place might be in jeopardy of getting shut down.

    Safety is everbody's responsibility and one still owns that bullet after you shoot it.

    BTW I am a Range OIC/RSO and have been militarily certified to run a range. I can tell you on a Marine range, range safety comes before hurting ones feelings. The range RSO are not bashful or polite, as a rule....but they are safe.

    I also feel safer shooting at Camp Perry with a thousand shooters on the line that at Birchwood sometimes.

    So, (whew) +1 experience for me with the current folks who run the range.

    Sorry you had an incident. I keep shooting. I feel lucky to have the range. I try to do my part to keep it safe.

    Thanks!

  16. #16
    Member shphtr's Avatar
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    Default

    I spoke to the Rangemaster at Birchwood this morning regarding this incident, of which he was familiar, in fact he said he witnessed it. He had a vastly different version of the entire thing. So........................?

    .....and his version was?

  17. #17
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    Default So, what went wrong?

    It seems to me (with testimony? from only one side) that we have separate issues here.

    1) The behaviour of the shooting group on the range. Was it objectionable in any way? If so, how?

    2) The behaviour of the range official (acting rangemaster?) Was he acting in his official capacity? Was he as polite as that station requires (when operating under authority, there are obligations to that office).

    3) The range facility (I could be wrong, but I do not know of a portion of the range designated for rimfire only. Has that changed recently?)

    4) Is it appropriate or within the authority of any one official to "disinvite" or ban any person from the range without some kind of formality (sometimes known as due process)?

    5) Did the official actually skip telling the shooting party what they did wrong and not give them a chance to rectify the problem? Was this their first contact with the official?

    I also wonder why the official told the party to leave as they were packing up? Did he think they were moving to another part of the range to continue shooting. It seems pointless to tell someone to go away as they are preparing to depart.

    Curious,

    Lost Sheep (Larry)

  18. #18
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    Yes, I too would like to hear the rangemasters side of the story. Specifically because he watched us shooting for a couple of hours from his office window. Which was located directly in front of where we were shooting. I had no issues with the man at the front desk, just the guy that showed up to run us off.

  19. #19
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    Default Learn to Read Signs

    Quote Originally Posted by fury View Post
    My family had arrived at the range last Saturday 10Am. There were 5 of us and we had gone to sight in a 30/06 and 2 .300 win mags. We had also taken along my M4, a couple .45s and a couple .22’s. We spent a couple hours on the 300 meter range with the hunting rifles and decided to move down so we could shoot the others. 3 lanes down from the 300 meter range we found a sign labeled Rifle Pistol. Upon arrival we found 3 other patrons using this 50 meter range with their AR style rifles. Again, the only indication here was RIFLE PISTOL. We shot here for about 2.5 hours. After about 200 rounds of .223, 100 rounds of .45 and well over 500 of .22 we were packing it up to head home. About this time some range employee, (official or not I don’t know) he was employed there; stopped over and informed us that we needed to be shooting at the range to our left if we wanted to fire anything other than rim-fire rifles or pistols. I told him we were finished and had we known before hand we would have moved.
    This is when it got ridiculous. He then told us to leave immediately or he would kick us out. He said he didn’t want to deal with people like us today; people who were unwilling to adhere to the range rules. I told him again that we were leaving. He said good get out of here. Upon packing everything up I took our targets back to the front desk and was asked by this individual to not come back.

    Sounds to me like you misunderstood the sign, ''RIFLE/PISTOL". Were there arrows pointing to either side indicating which one was for rifle, and which one was for pistol? If not, then common sense tells me that rifle, being on the left of the sign, would indicate that the rifle range is on the left, and the pistol range is on the right...

    I have only been to this range a few times, and have never personally seen this sign, I usually stay way over on the rifle side. But I have never had a problem, the employees were friendly, and helpful. When the range master approached you about being in the pistol range with your assult rifle, instead of smarting off to him, you should have just apologized for your mistake, and got on with your life.

    Good Luck in the valley.

    Alaskandude

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