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Thread: Shell Game

  1. #1
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    Default Shell Game

    This excerpt is from the DF&G pre-season Kasilof estimate:

    2008 Regulatory Changes
    An important change at the recent Upper Cook Inlet BOF meeting was the clarification that
    managing to meet established escapement goals is the Departmentís primary objective. A second
    notable change is that the use of the Kasilof River Special Harvest Area (KRSHA) should now
    occur only on rare occasions. The BOF directed the department to use its emergency order
    authority to commercially fish in traditional areas with more time than allowed for in the
    management plans, if needed, to allow additional harvests if Kasilof River sockeye salmon
    escapements are likely to exceed the escapement goal.


    IMO there should be a little more opportunity for dipnetters in this case to assist in what the fishery was originally created for. HARMONY should be the priority here; not dominance of one user group. The Kasilof was originally estimated to be 33% over the historical average and if you (like me) have been paying attention to the commercial hot line recording (907-262-9611) you would have noticed that there has been a liberal use of the Kasilof Special Harvest Area; which contradicts the statement that the KSHA ONLY OCCUR ON RARE OCCASIONS. Where's the opportunity for the dippers here? If there are to be restrictions (rumors I've heard) on the Kenai, liberalize the dip nets as well as the commercial nets.
    "He who is slow to anger is better than the mighty, and he who rules his spirit is better than he who takes a city." ~ Proverbs 16:32

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    Default gee are you not aware of what happened

    Quote Originally Posted by Back Country Robb View Post
    This excerpt is from the DF&G pre-season Kasilof estimate:

    2008 Regulatory Changes
    An important change at the recent Upper Cook Inlet BOF meeting was the clarification that
    managing to meet established escapement goals is the Departmentís primary objective. A second
    notable change is that the use of the Kasilof River Special Harvest Area (KRSHA) should now
    occur only on rare occasions. The BOF directed the department to use its emergency order
    authority to commercially fish in traditional areas with more time than allowed for in the
    management plans, if needed, to allow additional harvests if Kasilof River sockeye salmon
    escapements are likely to exceed the escapement goal.


    IMO there should be a little more opportunity for dipnetters in this case to assist in what the fishery was originally created for. HARMONY should be the priority here; not dominance of one user group. The Kasilof was originally estimated to be 33% over the historical average and if you (like me) have been paying attention to the commercial hot line recording (907-262-9611) you would have noticed that there has been a liberal use of the Kasilof Special Harvest Area; which contradicts the statement that the KSHA ONLY OCCUR ON RARE OCCASIONS. Where's the opportunity for the dippers here? If there are to be restrictions (rumors I've heard) on the Kenai, liberalize the dip nets as well as the commercial nets.
    Back country the dip net fishery was opened to the bridge and the sport fishery went to 6 fish over two weeks ago. In contrast, the commercial fishery, which could have used the terminal area at that time, was held off and the traditional fisheries used. Today the terminal area is being used as the traditional areas are closed because of Kenai sockeye escapement is lacking. This is exactly the situation the Board of Fisheries discussed as to when the terminal area should be used.

    The ADF&G management biologist for commercial fisheries are doing exactly what should be done here. The dip net fishery cannot control escapement as demostrated by last weekends harvest and escapement. Also, commercial fisherman do have a priority use on sockeye - I do not think anyone who fishes Kasilof can complain.

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    Default

    Why would they pull the nets off the beaches at the Kasilof? They don't catch a significant number of Kenai fish, and that is not a reason why Kenai fish aren't here. The fish are just late. Right?

    And the Kenai never gets shut down for reds, right Brian?

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    Default why nets sometime

    Quote Originally Posted by yukon View Post
    Why would they pull the nets off the beaches at the Kasilof? They don't catch a significant number of Kenai fish, and that is not a reason why Kenai fish aren't here. The fish are just late. Right?

    And the Kenai never gets shut down for reds, right Brian?
    Yukon, the set nets at Kasilof have never been represented to be a pure fishery. Therefore, harvestable surplus of Kenai is taken in the nets to help control Kasilof which are the predominant fish. When Kenai may not reach the goal then there is no harvestable surplus and the nets are pulled. Pretty simple concept.

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerka View Post
    Yukon, the set nets at Kasilof have never been represented to be a pure fishery. Therefore, harvestable surplus of Kenai is taken in the nets to help control Kasilof which are the predominant fish. When Kenai may not reach the goal then there is no harvestable surplus and the nets are MOVED INTO THE KASILOF RIVER TO TOTALLY CHOKE OFF THE RIVER 24 HOURS PER DAY NOW. WORKS GREAT FOR SOCKEYE MANAGEMENT, BUT IT REALLY MESSES WITH THE REMAINING USER GROUPS. BUT WHO CARES, THERE'S ONLY A COUPLE OF DOZENS BOATS FISHING IT RIGHT NOW INSTEAD Of HUNDREDS. IF MOST DON'T SEE IT, THEN IT CAN"T HURT TOO MUCH. Pretty simple concept.
    Thre, I fixed your statement Nerka

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    Default First to admit it

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerka View Post
    Back country the dip net fishery was opened to the bridge and the sport fishery went to 6 fish over two weeks ago. In contrast, the commercial fishery, which could have used the terminal area at that time, was held off and the traditional fisheries used. Today the terminal area is being used as the traditional areas are closed because of Kenai sockeye escapement is lacking. This is exactly the situation the Board of Fisheries discussed as to when the terminal area should be used.

    The ADF&G management biologist for commercial fisheries are doing exactly what should be done here. The dip net fishery cannot control escapement as demostrated by last weekends harvest and escapement. Also, commercial fisherman do have a priority use on sockeye - I do not think anyone who fishes Kasilof can complain.
    When I'm wrong, I'm wrong... I'm the first to admit it.

    I'm not sure there's anyone that dips all the way up at the bridge or spaces in between... any feedback on success/failures anyone?
    "He who is slow to anger is better than the mighty, and he who rules his spirit is better than he who takes a city." ~ Proverbs 16:32

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    Default well what can I say

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Ball - Piscatorial Pursuits View Post
    Thre, I fixed your statement Nerka
    Bob, I know of no place in UCI where action for one stock does not create a situation for other users. For example, you guide so actions to promote the tourist industry and guiding impacts non-guided anglers. Commercial impacts sport and personal use. Sport fisherman downstream of the Russian River take Russian River fish that impact fisherman who love the Russian River.

    So I guess my comment to your statement is that there was no consideration of other users is wrong. The Board of Fisheries heard the testimony and has put in place an OEG on Kasilof sockeye and instructions on when to use the terminal area. This is just one of those years where it was needed.

    If I follow your thinking - to put in more sockeye than the goals would keep you fishing and yet would impact the commercial guys. So what is the greater good here or does minority interest prevail (your words about a few people fishing)? That is why we have the Board of Fisheries and they have spoken on this issue for right now. I understand your frustratiion with the terminal area. I have stated before I do not like it as a regular management tool - I know the commercial biologists do not like it either but sometimes one must do things they prefer not to do.

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    Default just a follow up to the above

    I forgot to mention that a political closure of the drift fleet on 10 July put more Kasilof fish on the beach and that has contributed to the present situation. The 10 July closure was done by ADF&G in response to the pressure from the valley legislators. So Bob if you are mad at someone be mad at those legislators and the Commissioner who made a decision on 10 July two months before the season. He should be ashamed of himself for doing this for political reasons.

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    Default Silvers

    While dippers in the Kasilof may be frowning, silver anglers in the valley are smiling. Silvers are in catchable numbers in all the streams, and very few have net marks. Now why in a year when all other runs are showing up late would silvers already be in valley streams in such strong numbers?

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by yukon View Post

    And the Kenai never gets shut down for reds, right Brian?
    Not sure why this barb was directed at me, yukon. I was wrong in a previous statement, you corrected me, and I thank you for it.

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    No barb intended, a little nymph with a barbless hook. I figured by the time you read it the Kenai would be closed to red fishing. I was just thinking you had said something about the Kenai never being shut down (except 2000 and 2001, and part of 2006). Just a little fun.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by yukon View Post
    Just a little fun.
    Got it. Sorry, I just got back from a long and very tiring commercial fishing trip and am probably just a bit on edge. Didn't mean to read something into the post that wasn't there, but apparently did so.

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    Me too, not so much the commercial fishing part, just the really tired part and a little on edge. One more day! The good news there are plenty of silvers in the river for August.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yukon View Post
    The good news there are plenty of silvers in the river for August.
    The bad news, of course, is that you have to be back in Anchorage soon. Two more weeks....two more weeks.

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    All to soon. I am excited to fish silvers for the first time in 2 years. I usually fished sockeyes the first two weeks of August as there aren't really any silvers in until the middle of the month. Hopefully the silvers are on the move and there are enough of them to catch until I leave. It has been a long time since I have seen this many silvers this early, kinda like 1998. We will see how many are out there on Friday, I saw a lot of people fishing them today.

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