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Thread: Dakota Cases

  1. #1

    Default Dakota Cases

    Is there any capacity difference in the 300, 330 and 375 Dakota cases? They are all based on the 404 Jeffery. If there is a difference, how possible/practicle is necking the 330 or 375 down to a 308?

    Thanks

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    Member Big Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaRifleman View Post
    Is there any capacity difference in the 300, 330 and 375 Dakota cases? They are all based on the 404 Jeffery. If there is a difference, how possible/practicle is necking the 330 or 375 down to a 308?

    Thanks
    Just do it in steps, .375 to .338 and .3378 to .308, anneal the necks shoulder area. Or you can start with brass like NORMA that is vary soft to begin with.

    I have a nagging memory of the Dakota brass from the 1980's being vary poorly made here in the U.S.A. I bought a 1,000 rounds from the same manufacturer as the Dakota. It was in 6PPC. I hope you have better brass today.

    I have a faint memory as it being from the same people that make the Swift A frame bullets. Without a doubt the worst brass I ever bought in my life. I'm sure it's changed, It would have had to.

    As to the .404 Jeffery brass, I bought a bunch from Bell, Brass Extrusion, they have been bought out and the name has changed, last I heard they were into government contracts.

    A phone call to Huntington's die specialties will get the low down on what you can and can't do. with this brass.

    http://www.huntingtons.com/
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tryants." (Thomas Jefferson

  3. #3

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    I called Dakota Arms and they said that Hornaday was making their brass. Not sure of the quality of Hornaday's brass but their products are generally good. Also waiting for a call back on case capacity.

    Should I fire form after each step? I think a 300-375 Dakota would make a cool wildcat and I'm guessing about the same perfomance as the 300 RUM, maybe better? The shorter fatter case would probably give a more efficient powder burn, kind of like the WSM's.

    I like the idea.

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    I've got to ask. Why not just use 300 Dakota brass?

    If the reason is that you have lots of 375 or 330 Dakota brass, I'll trade you new 300 Dakota for new 375 or 330 Dakota brass.

    You would need to anneal the 375 to get to 300 but still un-necessary work. There are some dimensional differences in all the 2.5" Dakota cases (7mm,30, 330, 375, 404 and the 416 Murphy) All are about 2.570" long and have 30 degree shoulders but base to datum will vary among calibers.

    Jamison, bought Bell and made Dakota Brass for some time...I think it was good brass. Lapua made some of the Dakota calibers and I know it was good brass. The Hornady Brass is much better than any of their earlier efforts and I doubt you will find better brass made in the USA today for standard hunting calibers. The H&H and 375 Ruger basic stuff is very good, I just wish it was annealed.

    I can give you case capacity for all calibers but I don't see what you're after here. You want a 30 caliber on a 2.5" 404 Jeffery case? It is presently available. The RUM is roughly this case full length at about 2.850" so it will have greater capacity, which for the 30 bore is too much, the 2.5" case equals the Weatherby in an '06 length without a belt.

    These cases hold the same as the 300 Jarrett, 8mm Remington, 358 STA or the 416 Remington, (all full length H&H improved) that was the intent by design. They are beltless equivalent cases. If you call Dakota and ask for Ward (he's waiting on my 416 Murphy dies) he can fill you in about the dimensions.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



  5. #5

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    Thanks for the info Murphy,

    Here's the deal... I'm looking to rechamber my M77 (tang safety) 7mmRM. The barrel is shot and I like the reciever/action and want to build a new rifle on it. I want to get away from the belted cases. I would just go with a 300 RUM but the cases are too long as you know.

    Why go with the 375 case insted of the 300? Because you know me, I want speed I would like to push a 200 gr bullet at least 3200 fps and maybe a 240 SMK around 3000.

    Now if the 375 doesn't get me more capacity than the 300, Ok I will go with the 300, or just settle for the 7mm Dakota which is a dandy round.

    From the picture of the cartridges it looks like the 300, 330, and 375 are about the same case and slightly larger than the 7mm. Maybe I could go with a 7mm-300 configuration?

    Actually Ward was supposed to call me back. I'll try again maybe tomorrow.

  6. #6
    Member shphtr's Avatar
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    Murphy is basically correct. For all intents and purposes the case capacity of the Dakota 7mm, 300, 330, and 375 are the same. There are very slight differences in the case lengths to the datum line that are important regarding reloading and hence in the dies. This means that a 375 Dakota necked down to .308" will functionally be a 300 Dakota. Over the years Dakota has had a number of different manufactures for their brass and different manufactures for different calibers. Depending on the particular case current manufactures include: Jamison, Hornaday, Lapua, Norma, and perhaps others that I am not aware of. I would call Ward at Dakota Arms. He is their chief engineer and was with Dakota when Don Allen first founded the company. He is easy to talk to, and extremely knowledgeable and I am sure will answer any questions that you might have. There are case dimension drawings of the different cases on their web site if you need some specific numerical values.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shphtr View Post
    Murphy is basically correct. For all intents and purposes the case capacity of the Dakota 7mm, 300, 330, and 375 are the same. There are very slight differences in the case lengths to the datum line that are important regarding reloading and hence in the dies. This means that a 375 Dakota necked down to .308" will functionally be a 300 Dakota. Over the years Dakota has had a number of different manufactures for their brass and different manufactures for different calibers. Depending on the particular case current manufactures include: Jamison, Hornaday, Lapua, Norma, and perhaps others that I am not aware of. I would call Ward at Dakota Arms. He is their chief engineer and was with Dakota when Don Allen first founded the company. He is easy to talk to, and extremely knowledgeable and I am sure will answer any questions that you might have. There are case dimension drawings of the different cases on their web site if you need some specific numerical values.
    Thanks. I forgot about the website. I'm glad I'm basically correct.

    Yes, I've dealt with Ward for some time and knew Don well. This line of cartridges is well designed and very good performers. You forgot the 404 on that short case and my 416, which admittedly is just the 375 opened up. Ward will be the first to load and shoot my new rifle, with my dies of course.

    Hornady is the newest brass maker for them and it seemed odd to me that they had different makers for different calibers but then I realized the good business of diversified sources for raw goods. I wish we still had Don and Norma running that show.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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    Default Ward at Dakota....

    I didn't have time to comment earlier today...but I was going to suggest the same thing. Give Ward in Sturgis a call...the man in a genius when it comes to engineering these fine firearms. Like Murphy mentioned, Ward has been there since the beginning... I trusted my 330Dak with him like my dad trusted his 300Dak with him.

    If there is a safe and reliable way to do it... he will tell ya straight up.

    Murphy... still interested in a sending a few down range?
    When all else fails...ask your old-man.


    AKArcher

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    Member Big Al's Avatar
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    Hornady is the newest brass maker for them and it seemed odd to me that they had different makers for different calibers but then I realized the good business of diversified sources for raw goods. I wish we still had Don and Norma running that show.[/quote]

    I agree with every thing you said Murphy except the Norma part.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tryants." (Thomas Jefferson

  10. #10

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    I talked to Ward today and he said there was basically no difference in capacity between the 300, 330 and 375 cases. They are a little bigger (longer) than the 7mm, about 7 water grs worth and he figured necking down a 300 to a 7mm might get me about 50 fps. Not really worth the effort.

    Also, Norma makes the 7mm and 300 brass and Hornaday makes the 330 and 375.

    And Murphy, if your interested in 375 Dakota brass, Midway has it on sale for about 30% off $28 vs $38 for 20.

  11. #11

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    So now, my choice is 7mm or 300? If I can get the 300 to push a 200 gr bullet @ 3100 fps that would be acceptable. I would be shooting a 27" barrel. My powder choices would be Retumbo, H1000, H4831sc and H4350. Retumbo seems to have great performance but I dont see it much in the shorter cases.

    Also considering necking down the 8mmRM and 375 Ruger, but would that be any better than just going with the 300 Dakota?

    Hodgdon shows the 375 ruger pushing a 235 bullet 2900 plus out of a 24" barrel. Would it be reasonable to think that necking it down to a 308 would push a 200 gr bullet @ 3100-3200 fps out of a 27" barrel?

    The 375 Dakota however shows a slightly better performance than the 375 Ruger (from the Hodgdon site) but not sure what length barrel Dakot use for it's ballastics.

    The 300 Dakota is pushing a 180 gr bullet at 3100 fps which is what I want out of the 200 gr bullet.

    So how does cartridge size/shape/capacity vs bullet/bore diameter determine performance?

    Murphy? Big Al? Anyone?

  12. #12
    Member shphtr's Avatar
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    One of the best powders for the 300 Dak is RL 22 (and sometimes IMR 7828), but definitely RL 22 for 180's and 200's with RL 19 for the 165/168's. For me with a 24" barrel in one of my rifles I get between 3150 and 3200 with 180 gr Barnes XXX with the best accuracy at 3150. Depending on the bullet, powder, barrel, and chamber 3200 fps with a 200 gr is prob'ly a bit on the ragged edge and if attainable you're looking at sig'ly shortened number of reloads from your brass....at least that's been my experience.

  13. #13

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    What kid of action are you building this on? Montana? Dakota?....Reason I ask, I have a Dakota 76 action that I was going to build a 338 on that I am trying to part with.

  14. #14

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    I'm building on an M77 Ruger. How much do you want for your Dakota?

  15. #15

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    brownells is selling the exact action in the white for 1995.00. Mine is blued and has the claw jeweled, but even at that probably at least 1800..It has never been fired or anything, started to build a really nice 338, then got married, sidetracked, and ended up building a 375 and not using the action because a wanted a true safari length action.

  16. #16

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    Probably worth every penny, but a little out of my price range right now. I figure my M77 will get me a real nice custom for less than $1300.

    Have you tried gunbrokers?

  17. #17

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    Well I've done a little research and have got some interesting results.

    I ran ballistics on the 7mm, 300, and 330 Dakota and the 300 RUM and this is what I came up with. The data is based on load info from Dakota and some other sources and assumes a 27" barrel. I'll list MV and velocity, energy and momentum at 1000 yds for these cartridegs.

    MV V 1Kyds E 1Kyds M 1Kyds
    7mm Dakota
    189 Caut, .78 BC 3000 2031 1730 54.83

    300 Dakota
    200 AB, .588 BC 3050 1797 1434 51.35

    300 RUM
    200 AB, .588 BC 3200 1906 1613 54.45

    330 Dakota
    225 AB, .550 BC 3150 1795 1610 57.71

    The ballistics were run for 5000' elevation. It would be interesting to get more info on the Cauterucios bullets for the 300 and 338. The 7mm is looking like a dandy round.

    The info didn't post into columns like I hoped but hopefully you can follow along.

  18. #18

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    Also been thinking about getting multiple barrels with different chambers for this rifle.

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    Member Matt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaRifleman View Post
    Also been thinking about getting multiple barrels with different chambers for this rifle.
    Make sure your pockets are deep enough. $200+ just for the barrel blank.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    Make sure your pockets are deep enough. $200+ just for the barrel blank.
    Yup, I figure probably about $1K, maybe less for each cartridge for barrel, smithing, dies etc., which would be a lot less than $3-4K per custum rifle and scope Maybe add one new chamber a year....

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