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Thread: Why would they do this.

  1. #1
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    Angry Why would they do this.

    I was just reading about the guy that turned in the sublegal bull. That is a shame they had to be that way with him. I think our local game trooper would have been a bit more understanding than that.
    Now for the really sick news I heard last night. My friend was out the other night and heard some shots fired. He asked the Game Trooper about it and aperantly someone was out joy riding that night and took it upon themselves to shoot a 5 brow tine bull moose and left it lay. How is that for rotten. I guess it was a really beautiful bull to. I am just sick about this. It happens allot up here in the fall. A few years ago we found a really nice bull with one shot through the ribs. About a 46 or so, 3 brow tines, a really pretty rack but obviously not legal. They had started to gut it and also started to skin the head to take the antlers and then bailed and let it rot. What a sham and just can't see how someone can have so little respect for the wildlife. I call the killers not hunters, absolutely no consience. They are the ones you wish would get caught and loose everything and spend a few days in jail. I must admire the guy for turning in what he thought was an illegal moose, he didn't let it go to waste and was very honest. I wish he hadn't gotten busted when I see what some people do and never get touched. I am truley sorry for him.

  2. #2
    Member .300wby's Avatar
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    Default Sublegal

    Leaving one lay is definately the lowest of low, but getting spanked when you turn one in seems right to me. You still screwed up! If there was no penalty for turning a sub-legeal in, I'll bet lot more people would say "man, I THINK it's legal...BOOM" rather than making darned sure. My $.02.

  3. #3

    Default

    I agree with 300WBY. If there wasn't a great risk in any fines and what not in turning in sub-legal animals there'd be a lot more people saying oh well if its not legal we'll just turn it in. Or better yet try to sneak it home and if they get stopped on the way home they'll just say "Yeah we're on our way to F&G to turn it in"

  4. #4

    Default Fine line

    I'm not an alaskan but here's my .02. If you spank the good guys that turn in the sub-legals to hard and the word gets out then you will soon have noone turning in sub-legals. The good guys know they screwed up and I'm sure they feel bad about it but if they know they are going to loose so much it's going to make it very difficult to justify doing the right thing.

    Not sure wht the right answer is.

    Bruce

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    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    Default

    The problem is what is a reaonable penalty? Is it 1K? I don't think so! $300 bucks sounds more reasonable top me.

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    Default I agree

    I too think that there should be a fine, even if you turn it in. I have let many a moose go here over the years because I wasn't sure. I have never had to make a donation to the State either. The ones that leave I don't think had any intention of doing it right to begin with. The 5 brow tiner that they killed a couple days ago was shearly for kicks. I think there is a special place waiting for those kind of people that would do something like that too!!! I have heard in years past where as many as 8-10 cows were found dead during the bull season. What would make someone do that kind of thing. To many people that have no buisness being in the woods. If they get so excited they make antlers on a cow what about the poor guy stumbling through the trees. Sounded like a moose???

  7. #7
    Member .300wby's Avatar
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    Default Right thing

    Quote Originally Posted by BruceB View Post
    I'm not an alaskan but here's my .02. If you spank the good guys that turn in the sub-legals to hard and the word gets out then you will soon have noone turning in sub-legals. The good guys know they screwed up and I'm sure they feel bad about it but if they know they are going to loose so much it's going to make it very difficult to justify doing the right thing.

    Not sure wht the right answer is.

    Bruce
    The "right thing" is DON'T SHOOT unless you're sure.

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    Default This is the answer

    Quote Originally Posted by .300wby View Post
    The "right thing" is DON'T SHOOT unless you're sure.
    This hits the nail doesn't it!! Make sure of what you are shooting. Doesn't take into acount the idiots that shoot stuff just for the pleasure of killing something. That is what makes me sick.

  9. #9
    Member tjm's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by .300wby View Post
    The "right thing" is DON'T SHOOT unless you're sure.
    keep in mind, we are human...
    ------------------------------------------------
    pull my finger....

  10. #10

    Default That's why

    Quote Originally Posted by tjm View Post
    keep in mind, we are human...
    ...you only get a small fine and don't end up in jail with all your stuff at auction

  11. #11
    Member .300wby's Avatar
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    Default no doubt

    Quote Originally Posted by tjm View Post
    keep in mind, we are human...
    I never said we weren't. However humans do need to be responsible for their actions, poor decision, accident or whatever. Anybody is capable of making a mistake and killing a sub-legal or non-targeted animal, i.e a bullet pass through hitting an animal you didn't see etc. But if you don't have to answer for it, what kind of message does it send? anybody can just say it was an accident and all is cool? And I personally am referring more to the numerous 46" to 49" 2 or 3 browtiners that some people know are close, and take the chance.

  12. #12

    Default Maybe

    a small fine the first time with serious consequences after that? I agree, slamming someone for doing the right thing is counterproductive.
    Mike
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    There is a faster way off the mountain, might hurt a little though.

  13. #13

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Echo View Post
    a small fine the first time with serious consequences after that? I agree, slamming someone for doing the right thing is counterproductive.
    Mike
    Having had this discussion with a guy I knew who worked for F&G (trooper) , at that time the fine was $75 for turning in a moose that was mistakenly taken as legal and was in fact sub legal. The problem according to him was that not all Officers enforce the law the same. One would say , well that sucks but were glad you did the right thing, heres your ticket and drop the meat out back. Others turn it into an inquisition and issue heavy fines and might even seek to charge you with additional penalities and charges and thats where guys leave with such a bad experience that their honesty turns sour and then they tell every sole they know.......if you screw up, walk away doing the right thing aint worth it. I cant speak personally on this topic because its never been worth it to me to shoot a bull I was unsure of and I dont hunt in antler restriction areas.

  14. #14
    Member Matt's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LuJon View Post
    The problem is what is a reaonable penalty? Is it 1K? I don't think so! $300 bucks sounds more reasonable top me.
    Yep, I agree!

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    Member RMiller's Avatar
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    Default

    Getting slammed for doing the right thing is counter productive.

    Something does have to be done though. as it would be too easy to go for it when the bulls are borderline.

    It does seem that some guys are too readily taking chances at sublegal bulls.

    For me if the bull does not have the appropriate amount of brow tines it had better be well over 50" for me to shoot.

    I do realize that accidents do occur and the penalty should be smaller for first timers.

    Another weird thing to look for on fork horns is for points coming out at the base of the antler. I have seen fork horns that I was ready to call legal and then see a point at the base of the antler which makes them illegal.
    "You have given out too much reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later".

  16. #16

    Default moose

    What really sucks is the poachers here in Delta Junction mostly russians that hunt all year long shoot any moose that walks.They rarely get a $250 which they dont have to pay if they say they are on welfare.They hunting without worry about sublegal bulls.I think the rules should be changed from 4 to three brow tines.With all the cow moose hunting going on here and the poachers soon there will be no moose.Its sliming down way too fast already.You hardly see a moose around town any more.The poachers and fish and game will wipe out the moose for good.I would agree on 100 cows per year and 3 browtine 50" but looking for 4 browtined moose is about impossible.I have seen one out of about 2000 bulls in 10 years.

  17. #17
    Mark
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Echo View Post
    Maybe a small fine the first time with serious consequences after that? I agree, slamming someone for doing the right thing is counterproductive.....
    Seems like that would be the common sense thing to do, but common sense doesn't seem to apply anymore.

    Screw up, man up, and turn it in (meat well taken care of): $100 fine.

    Screw up and run? Get caught? $5,000 fine.

  18. #18
    Member alaskachuck's Avatar
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    Default

    So when do the listings come up for the russian hunt. If they are taking game illegal it should be them too. Heck 20 bucks for each russian permit. Ill give 35 for a german hauling his salmon back to his homeland making bank. Ill even give them a fair chase. Ill use my bow.

    On that note. I feel better. It is a tough decision. Some Cops, troopers, F&G folks judge things differently. If you make a mistake yes you should pay the price, The issue is what is the price. Joe Honest makes a mistake and takes it in the shorts for doing the right thing. Still. Like Dad always said, and what was said in a previous post. Never Ever Ever pull the Trigger on any gun untill your 100% sure. The take a moment and make sure your 200% sure. Joe poacher does the same thing pays the same price. What is the incentive to make it right. I feel bad when i dont pinch a barb in a catch and release stream, Or i wound a bunny in the leg. Karma will get even with it all
    Grandkids, Making big tough guys hearts melt at first sight

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    Default Hey dgr416

    Don't get too discouraged. There are more moose out there than you think. The whole 4 brow tine thing goes way back and is another story we'll have to discus sometime. There are allot of moose poached around here but I would almost bet there are more shot by out of town folks than our local people in the fall. The one I metioned at the beginning got shot up 1408 and left lay. It was a real nice 5 brow tiner. Warden didn't find anything that would help investigate it but a handful of 44 brass. They killed it fror something to do. What a shame. Hope to talk with you sometime. I sent you a personal note also.

    Quote Originally Posted by dgr416 View Post
    What really sucks is the poachers here in Delta Junction mostly russians that hunt all year long shoot any moose that walks.They rarely get a $250 which they dont have to pay if they say they are on welfare.They hunting without worry about sublegal bulls.I think the rules should be changed from 4 to three brow tines.With all the cow moose hunting going on here and the poachers soon there will be no moose.Its sliming down way too fast already.You hardly see a moose around town any more.The poachers and fish and game will wipe out the moose for good.I would agree on 100 cows per year and 3 browtine 50" but looking for 4 browtined moose is about impossible.I have seen one out of about 2000 bulls in 10 years.

  20. #20
    Member .300wby's Avatar
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    Default 100$?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    Seems like that would be the common sense thing to do, but common sense doesn't seem to apply anymore.

    Screw up, man up, and turn it in (meat well taken care of): $100 fine.

    Screw up and run? Get caught? $5,000 fine.
    You actually think that is incentive enough to make people more conscientious about taking the shot? I seriously doubt it!

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