View Poll Results: How did you apply for your winning draw permit?

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  • Via the internet

    84 94.38%
  • Via paper

    6 6.74%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Okay, now for the application question

  1. #1
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    Default Okay, now for the application question

    Thanks to those that posted regarding the luck or lack thereof in drawing permits, now the question, "Of those of you successful, did you apply on paper or via online?"
    "He who is slow to anger is better than the mighty, and he who rules his spirit is better than he who takes a city." ~ Proverbs 16:32

  2. #2
    Member shphtr's Avatar
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    Default

    What about those folks that have used both methods - at different times in the past of course - to successfully apply for draws?

  3. #3

    Default Online and got one out of three

    Didn't get my first choice though.

  4. #4
    Member AK Tubes's Avatar
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    Default Online

    0 fer 3...for the last 3 years!!!

  5. #5
    Member Whitetail1der's Avatar
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    Default Don't really want to talk about the results

    My desire to live here (AK) was based on the hunting and fishing opportunities that I'd have when I had the time to get out. This is a kick in the pants for sure...year after year of feeding the state my hard earned money and not near as a thank you do I or so many others receive in return. I only hope that when or if I should be drawn for a hunt, I don't have one foot in the grave that would prevent me from going on it. I'm not *****ing about the system or the results but it does get frustrating year after year coming up empty handed! It would be nice if a point system was implemented...at least then I'd know and so many others would to, when we'd be able to get a hunt in, in a location of our choice. Even if it took 10 to 15 years to get it!

  6. #6
    Member Erik in AK's Avatar
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    No permits this year, but I have been successfull with both methods.

  7. #7
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    Default

    I've been talking to my state senator's for over 20 years about having a point drawing system. State fish & Game refuses to even consider it. Their minds are completely closed on the subject. Until we get someone in the state capitol, in charge of the fish & game money, forcing them to change, we will continue down this completely unfair path. I'm 60 and have drawn one permit in my life and never gotten a tier II yet. Maybe we should do a ballot initive for a drawing point system. This seems to work for every other idea someone comes up with. If I sound bitter - it's because I am. The present system is broke and they refuse to fix it.

  8. #8
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    Default Please

    Only those that won a permit are the preferred voters.
    "He who is slow to anger is better than the mighty, and he who rules his spirit is better than he who takes a city." ~ Proverbs 16:32

  9. #9

    Default

    I drew my tag last year via online app and drew via online app this year

    The talk of a points system is completely discouraging IMHO. I like the idea that, one day, my young daugther will have the same odds at drawing a valley cow tag as some sourdough over by Nikanutsac River. Is the system broken? Barely, TC566 ought to be a draw.

  10. #10
    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Water_Gremlin View Post
    The talk of a points system is completely discouraging IMHO. I like the idea that, one day, my young daugther will have the same odds at drawing a valley cow tag as some sourdough over by Nikanutsac River. Is the system broken? Barely, TC566 ought to be a draw.
    Absolutely agreed. We go through this every year when folks get frustrated by their lack of a permit, but the fact remains that the fairest method is a random draw, Nelchina caribou included.

    As for the apps, I've been doing them solely online for years and have had a little bit of luck. That being said, my brother and father still send in paper apps and have won some permits as well.

  11. #11

    Default Application methods

    My father and I sent our apps via mail and we recived 4 permits. Including Delta bison and Alaska range caribou. So I think I'll stick to mail.

  12. #12

    Default

    I agree that in many cases a point system will not help at all with many of the popular hunts. Lets take Bison for example. We'll look at the Bison draw with the best odds DI 454. 1021 people applied and they gave out 24 permits. So roughly 2.35%. So that means 98% of the people all got 1 perference point or just under 1000 people. So now you have 997 all on equal drawing ground. Same thing but now you are up to 2.4% Next year 973 people so odds are about 2.46% So after 20 years you still only have a 42% chance of getting drawn. In fact after 42 years you have a 64% chance of getting drawn and by the 43 year of consectutively applying you WILL get your permit. Congrats. So if I started doing that next year I'd be 68 years old. Sounds like a GREAT system.

    Better yet lets take all the Bison permits as a whole last year. 18,548 people applied for 166 permits. After doing this for 200 years you'd still have 13,630 applying with the same exactly preference points. Its ok though after 111 years would be the year everyone that orginally started drawing in 2007 would get a permit.

    Or how bout this. Just looking at all the moose draw permits for 2007 35,941 applied for permits and only 3036 people got them or about 8.4%. So after 11 years you'll have a 54% chance to draw and the 12th year you will draw. Thats about a I think I'll stick with my chances in the random draw.

    Every year 92% of the people that apply for a moose permit DO NOT get one. So would you rather have it so a person that is new to hunting has to wait on average 12 YEARS to get a freaking moose permit. I'd rather take my chances in the random. This is why I make plans on NOT gettting a permit and if I do its a bonus if I do draw.

    I believe that the point system works better down south is because they has so many different small draw units all split up that they get to split it up better. However, I'd hate to see Alaska disected more than it already is. Its nice to be able to have such huge areas to have general open seasons rather than everything be pigeon holed to a bunch of 30 square mile sections. If we did this to Alaska there would be so many hunts not even applied for cause they are out in BFE and no roads. There are roads all over the lower 48 so its much easier to access and split up into tiny units to hunt. Thats why all the easily accessible hunts are less than 5% draws for Alaska cause otherwise you are looking at a flyout which isn't cheap.

    Alaska isn't the lower 48 the same rules do not apply as its such a different animal up here. If you want to wait 12 years for a moose permit be my guest. But a point system WILL NOT help you draw road accessible hunts in Alaska WILL NOT work as everything is so popular and there are so many people applying for the same thing.

  13. #13
    Member preed's Avatar
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    im not so sure your going to get an acurate answer to your question. as the whole draw thing is on all our minds the past few days and lots of us are on here asking questions but it also occured to me many many outdoors guys are not into the internet or computers at all. honestly alot of the people i talk with dont even know what AOJ is. so id have to say alot of people putting in paper arent going to answer this question. just my .02

  14. #14
    Member dkwarthog's Avatar
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    Default

    It seems to me that giving preference points for permit draws would be like rating your PFD amount on how many years youve lived here...I would agree to that system but it will never fly...IMO.

    I crapped out again this year but I'll keep trying and next year I'll have as good a chance any any of you at finally getting my bison permit!!!!

    Gremlin, did you get your Nikanutsac River Permit this year or are you gonna do it the old fashioned way with the razor.... Man, sorry I couldnt let that one go.... BTW I agree 100% that TC566 should be a straight lottery. That hunt has gone beyond ridiculus and into the ludicrous phase.

  15. #15
    Member Matt's Avatar
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    There is no advantage of upping your odds of getting a permit via the internet than paper application, unless you mail your application after the postmark date. Good luck in the winter draw....

  16. #16

    Default

    The one advantage i've found by applying online is that it won't let you apply if there is a mistake. I've drawn tags using the internet to apply and by doing the mail in app. Doing it over the internet is definetly the easiest way and I've been doing it that way since F&G started using it.

  17. #17
    Member AKDoug's Avatar
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    I've only applied twice ever..both times online... I was successful the first time with a Chugach sheep permit and the second time for a Kodiak goat permit. Both of my wins were in permit areas with fairly high +10% drawing success rate.

  18. #18
    Member akrstabout's Avatar
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    Default Hmm.

    I read the other threads about people not drawing. I just don't see how after 29 years for example how you would not get lucky at some point. I have drawn a lot of permits. Only used one, DM427, which I just drew again 4 years later and first time putting in for it since. I now only apply for hunts that I know I can do, money wise and skill wise. When I was younger I drew a Kodiak brown bear, Chugach any sheep by bow, Afognak elk,Koyokuk moose, and two nelchina tier one permits when they were doing that. Oh so I guess I used 3 and connected on two of them, the moose and one caribou. All in the last 11 years, maybe 12. Pretty much my dad or I draw something every time, once or twice we both scratched.

    So what comes to mind is that some of you must get black listed, or you mess up on the permits somehow, or you don't apply for enough permits. I am not sure how the system works exactly, But our methods work. To much to explain, but very symple to us.

    When I apply for an species, like this year Moose and Musk Ox. I applied for 3 for each. Arrange them in the order you wish to draw or in the order of percentage rate. I think I drew my first choice on moose, can't remember exactly.

    So make sure and fill out and return every hunt report with the time frame, that will get you black listed. Apply for 3 each of every animal you choose to apply for.

    What are your methods for those of you who are not lucky? Oh and we drew most of the permits from mailing in forms. This is my second win from internet filing, 2 for 2, koyokuk moose in 2006 and now fort rich winter moose hunt.
    Last edited by akrstabout; 07-15-2008 at 18:03. Reason: spelling issues

  19. #19
    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by akrstabout View Post
    ...or you don't apply for enough permits.
    I think that might be part of it for some. I read on here yesterday someone saying they never draw a permit, then mentioning that they spend $25 or $30/year on applications. At $5 per app, that's not many hunts. Between the spring and winter draws, I always put in for 3 sheep, 3 goat, 3 moose, 2 caribou, 3 brown bear, and 2 bison permits. I do the same for my wife. Yep, we're out $90 each for applications, but more applications leads to better chances of drawing something. She still hasn't won in 5 years of applying, but in general I win a tag every 2.5 years or so. If you're so inclined to put in for elk and musk ox, that will raise the chances even more.

  20. #20
    Member AK-HUNT's Avatar
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    Default the rub

    I know one fella above was talking about how he basically can't hunt now but I don't get it. I drew and that's just a bonus. I'd have hunted every free minute if I didn't get one however. I would suggest folks maybe look at it that way. Permit is icing on the cake but I sure wouldn't EVER plan on one or let it slow the roll. I mean, how can ya get wrapped around the axle when hunting season starts in less than 30 days!!!!!!!!!!

    By the way, I've drawn with paper app before and this year it was online so I don't believe that makes a diff....

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