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Thread: Destroying the Pike, and everything in the water...

  1. #1
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    Post Destroying the Pike, and everything in the water...

    Has anyone heard anything more on the initiative petitioned to the state to use some sort of chemical in the lakes to get rid of the pike?

    I heard that they petitioned the state and the state was going to make a decision soon. The chemical would kill the pike (and trout) in the lakes that had a pike infestation and then they would re-introduce the trout.

    I wish I had the opportunity to attend one of the meetings for this. I was wondering if applying this chemical to a lake would:
    1. kill the plant life?
    2. what would happen to animals that ate the carcasses, like sea gulls and such?
    3. are there enough trout fisheries to support the re-introduction of trout to all these lakes?
    4. What happens to beaver and other support wildlife?
    5. If they had this technology before, why haven't they killed the dang mosquitoes? (just kidding)

    I'm curious about these things. I'm sure that people involved are asking these questions also. I'm also pretty sure they are smarter than I am about this stuff.

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    From what I have read, the stuff they use removes the oxygen from the water, suffocating the fish. The lakes in question are ones that previously were stocked with trout (Cheney, Lower Fire, etc.) and have been taken over by pike as the lakes are not deep enough to allow trout and salmon fry a place to hide.

    The stuff breaks down very quickly and since the fish have suffocated rather than being outright poisoned, there is little concern about other animals eating the dead fish.

    Again, this is from what I have read. There may be some problems with the stuff that I have not read about.

  3. #3
    Member Hunt'N'Photos's Avatar
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    Bilder hit it on the head. This stuff sounds like its not too bad at all for anything but the fish. Here is a link to the chemical manual and another one to the original article.

    www.fisheries.org/units/rotenone/Rotenone_Manual.pdf

    http://www.adn.com/fishing/story/458547.html
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    Attached is a link to the Department's web site providing quite a bit of information on the subject.

    http://www.sf.adfg.state.ak.us/region2/pike/

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    Default Ah...

    Thanks much, good information. It answered all my questions.

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    Member Bullelkklr's Avatar
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    Default should

    kill the beavers right along with the pike.

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    Its called Retnone. It kills by depriving O2 to the fish. harless to an eagle who eats the dead fish and will not harm plants.

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    Member Flintlock's Avatar
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    How's that? Beavers don't breathe underwater...

    Did I misunderstand your post..? Are you suggesting that we go ahead and kill beavers as well as the pike or were you concerned that killing the pike would have an adverse effect on the beavers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullelkklr View Post
    kill the beavers right along with the pike.

  9. #9

    Default Rotenone

    Runswithstick:

    Answers to your questions:

    1. Rotenone does not kill plants. In fact rotenone is made from a plant, the derris plant that is native to South America.

    2. Since birds and mammals have a high tolerance to rotenone if they feed on the fish killed with rotenone they should not have any problems – except maybe gain some weight!

    3. This question I really can’t answer, however trout stocked in ponds and lakes that have been treated with rotenone usually have fairly rapid growth (no competition, plentiful food when the insects recover, etc.).

    4. Beaver should be unharmed by the rotenone.

    5. Killing mosquitoes is an entirely different issue!!!


    Bilder:

    Rotenone does not remove oxygen from the water. As fish breath they take up the rotenone when it is the water and it inhibits their respiration at the cellular level. The breakdown of rotenone in water depends on the water temperature, the higher the water temperature the faster it breaks down – maybe 5 days with water temperatures in the 80-85F range to 4-6 weeks when lakes are treated under the ice.


    ClearCreek

  10. #10

    Default Public Comment Period for Cheny Lake

    The Department of Environmental Conservation is currently taking written public comments through August 23rd for allowing the use of rotenone in Cheney Lake. Dependent upon the comments received the DEC will either approve or deny the pesticide application permit.

    Personally, I hope that the permit will be approved and the rehabilitation of the rainbow trout fishery is a success. But, after attending an informational meeting relative to the rotenone use last week; my concern is that the permit will not be approved due to the outcry of property owners surrounding Cheney Lake who prefer not to have their piece of paradise disturbed by the 7,000 angler days the lake use to witness.

    Now think about this... Wouldn't it be refreshing to see a public resource used by parents & kids or just kids fishing again, instead of the alternatives?

  11. #11
    Member Music Man's Avatar
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    Put a bounty on the pike, like 50 cents each and the kids in Anchorage would have something constructive to do.
    When seconds count, the cops are just minutes away.
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  12. #12

    Default Kill the Pike!

    Kill the Pike!

    Retenone, Nets, Rod n Reel, Dynamite.... whatever...
    I hate Pike!

  13. #13
    Member Erik in AK's Avatar
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    I don't happen to hate pike but....

    I support removing them from wherever they've destroyed an established fishery (i.e. Red Shirt Lake)

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    Member fishNphysician's Avatar
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    Anybody know what came of all this?

    Any updates?
    "Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." Zane Grey
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    Member MRFISH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishNphysician View Post
    Anybody know what came of all this?

    Any updates?
    I know they treated Cheney Lake in Anchorage already. There was a brief story on Channel 2 about it.

  16. #16
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    if they treat the fire lake system that will be a sad day, there are still a ton of wild rainbows in that system and the pike seemed to have disappeared on their own.

    To answer the question the chemical that they use hurts nothing but fish.
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by fishNphysician View Post
    Anybody know what came of all this?

    Any updates?
    In talking with my buddy at ADF&G, he says it appears the rotenone treatment was effective in Cheney Lake. The test fish in cages died quickly and some pike were observed around the shoreline. I'm not sure how quickly Cheney Lake froze after the treatment, but I suspect ADF&G will put some test nets in the lake after ice out to verify the effectiveness of the treatment. Test fish in cages were also placed below the outlet and survived just fine, so no apparent discharge of treated water downstream to Chester Creek.

  18. #18

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    The real sad fact is that the bio doing the poisoning of the lake, lamented somewhat quietly under his breath, out of earshot of the press, that: Fish and Game does not have enough fingerlings to support even the current stocking goals and now they are going to be expected to find more. There is no more, because the hatcheries are limping along at the present. So lets hope the tourists who want to fish in Anchorage are ecstatic about the very few pinky sized fingerlings that they will hope to catch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ak_powder_monkey View Post
    if they treat the fire lake system that will be a sad day, there are still a ton of wild rainbows in that system and the pike seemed to have disappeared on their own.

    To answer the question the chemical that they use hurts nothing but fish.
    I am glad to see that some action was taken on pike and hope this is just the start.

    I would be veryh interested in the wild rasinbows you speak of. Fire Lake has been stocked with rainbows since the 1960's, I believe. There was even a hatchery on Fire Creek back in the 60's and 70's...........

  20. #20
    Member Erik in AK's Avatar
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    We lament the loss of red runs in the Susuitna drainage.
    Flathorn, Alexander, Nancy/Redshirt are all known as pike lakes now when they used to be known as rainbow lakes and rearing lakes for reds.

    Pike are a fantastic game fish in their own right but they can wreak havoc. If restoration means they're removed. So be it.

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