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Thread: why are draws for people in the lower 48?

  1. #1
    Member preed's Avatar
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    Default why are draws for people in the lower 48?

    i mean isnt that an alaskan thing? i wonder what the ratio of alaskans vs outsiders is? next thing you know they will be eligable for a PFD as to not discriminate.

  2. #2
    Moderator hunt_ak's Avatar
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    Default

    I take it you didn't draw....

    No worries, I didn't either!

  3. #3
    Member fshgde's Avatar
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    Default don't give em ideas

    It would suck getting a two dollar pfd and no bison I already know there wont be a bison permit but the pfd will go to spring brown bear hunt only took twelve or thirteen tries for that

  4. #4
    Member preed's Avatar
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    Default

    no i didnt. honestly havent put in for them in the past. once when i was a kid. but i was looking at the list of people and im asking, like im sure its been asked before, why? anybody know? i mean cant the lower 48 people buy their guided trips which include some sort of permit that the guides aquire who are also from out of state, or am i off base. dont they have to be guided anyway? im just trying to understand this process, i know im not going to. im also not knocking any guides, everyone has to do what they have to do wether i like it or not. refer me to an old thread or something id be happy to read it. did all those people from down south have their ak hunting license?
    hunt_ak, im not worried i just hunt the same ol way i have always have.

  5. #5
    Member Formerly Montana Bob's Avatar
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    Default Some R just Lucky

    Quote Originally Posted by hunt_ak View Post
    I take it you didn't draw....

    No worries, I didn't either!
    After going over the draw results for the 5th time I see there is a lucky non res who drew 2 tags and as luck would have it he is from the same state (MT) I left 2 years ago because I could not draw any tags there after applying for 15 years.
    I guess the the only luck I am ever going to have is bad although my MT house finally sold this month. Oh well I'm going fishing
    Fish IT! Hunt IT! or *#%@ IT!

  6. #6

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    Taint luck folks, most likely they are guided and pretty much are buying a draw tag for said unit and species, especially if its a griz/brown or sheep/goat. In some places like Kodiak, you are guaranteed a draw tag if you buy the guide, its a sad truth that has been going on for a long time here, nothing new!

  7. #7
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    Default Family Members and Military

    Just my .02 worth. Some are military that are Alaskan residents who have moved out of state but maintain their residency in the state.

    I have a buddy whose father comes up and hunts with him every now and then. If his dad is lucky enough to draw a tag, it gives them both something to go after.

    That's 2 scenarios off the top of my head that wouldn't require a guide, but would have out of state addresses.

    v/r
    Gary

  8. #8

    Default What do you mean

    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskaCub View Post
    Taint luck folks, most likely they are guided and pretty much are buying a draw tag for said unit and species, especially if its a griz/brown or sheep/goat. In some places like Kodiak, you are guaranteed a draw tag if you buy the guide, its a sad truth that has been going on for a long time here, nothing new!

    'buying a draw tag'?

    'if you buy the guide'?


  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by preed View Post
    i mean isnt that an alaskan thing? i wonder what the ratio of alaskans vs outsiders is? next thing you know they will be eligable for a PFD as to not discriminate.
    We have both non resident lottery and non resident guided hunts. The state offers "x" number of tags to outfitters and If you book one these hunts it's guaranteed (but way more spendy), first come first serve. I'm not real thrilled with it, as the outfitters turn around and lease all the best private land which some loand owners used to give permission to hunt. Now the out-of-staters get the best deer and elk hunts or a resident has to book a hunt.

    Non residents also get a small portion of non-guided lottery (draw) hunts, such as antelope, moose, sheep and goat.

    Bottom line, it's $$$ for the state.

  10. #10
    Member Phil's Avatar
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    Default Money

    MontanaRifleman hit it pretty squarely - it's money. Alaska G & F gets lots of its money from sale of licenses to us from the "lower 48". It's that way everywhere I hunt anymore. Do I like it? - absolutely not. Do I deal with it? - I have no choice.

    "The only constant in this world is change" Hunting/Fishing/Camping/etc in Alaska (and everywhere else) has changed and will continue to change so my advice is to enjoy the outdoors and work (after all Alaska does have a BOG) to keep what you consider fair. The rest you just have to deal with as best you can.

    My hunting in Alaska started in August 1971 (that's not a misprint). I bought a Mt. Goat license - over the counter - $25 for non residents - good for the entire state - no guide requirement - and the bag limit was 2. Hunting life does change.

    And, just in case, my hunting in Alaska is DIY so I can avoid the really high costs and I don't apply for any draws (although that may change as draw tags become more the norm).

  11. #11
    Member Phil's Avatar
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    Default Addendum

    The 1971 limit for M. Goat of 2 assumes you had $50 and bought 2 tags. I bought 1.

  12. #12
    Mark
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil View Post
    MontanaRifleman hit it pretty squarely - it's money. Alaska G & F gets lots of its money from sale of licenses to us from the "lower 48".....
    The state probably loses money on the drawing permit application fees vrs. the administrative costs of processing the applications, publishing the results, and printing the permits.

    As for non-resident tag fees, it probably does bring in more revenue than the administrative costs, but as far as I'm concerned, the non-resident fees are a bargain (especially for brown bear at $650, considering the fact that hunting brown bears elsewhere on Earth is vastly more expensive if legal at all, but that's only if the lucky non-resident has a relative of 2nd degree kinship who will take them hunting; the guide requirement is organized crime, as far as I'm concerned).

    License fees for non-residents just to apply for drawings is a bit harsh. What good is a license if they don't win their draw? It was just a cowardly way to raise drawing application revenue.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by AVALANCHE View Post
    'buying a draw tag'?

    'if you buy the guide'?
    Read Montana Riflemans response and it answers the question quite clearly. Yup, you buy the guides services ....and you are essentially buying the Draw Tag at the same time!

  14. #14
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    Default

    Yes a hunting license is required prior to applying for a draw. I have never applied for the current draw, but do apply in the winter. As an out of stater I apply with other out of staters for 5 total out of state tags for the Koyukuk moose hunt, non-guided. The 5 out of state tags are divided between the 2 "seasons" on the Koyukuk, early or late. Like most, I'm still waiting for that elusive tag. It would be possible for me (my party) to draw 2 tags if I put in for a party hunt and both parties held valid AK hunting licenses and paid the draw fees.

    Hope that answers a couple of questions. Don't know about guide tags and draws.

  15. #15
    Member Phil's Avatar
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    Default Every State

    Every state (including NY where I live) wants to get as much money as possible from non-resident hunters. Every state calculates as many ways as possible to enhance any of their money-making policies.

    I can't argue that the actual fees in Alaska are reasonable but all the other factors (can you say gasoline prices) make even DIY hunting an expensive proposition. Unfortunately I don't see any let-up in the future.

    As pressure increases for a fixed (or even declining) resource, expect more & more "lottery" style hunts. Heck, I hunt in Wyoming and ALL big game licenses are on a lottery basis and some (like Mt. Goat) are a once in a lifetime tag.

    Be patient, things like that are coming to Alaska - in the future. Well, maybe they are here already - Isn't the Delta Bison tag a once in a ______ tag?

  16. #16

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    Delta bison as of this year is once in a lifetime for non-residents and 5 years for residents. That is new. And personaly I like it ! I may actualy get one before I can no longer hunt ! 32 years of applying so far.

    Nearly every state in the union has an alloted amount of tags/drawing permits for non-res hunters, this is nothing unique to the state of alaska by any means.

  17. #17
    Member Michael Insko's Avatar
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    Default

    The state probably loses money on the drawing permit application fees vrs. the administrative costs of processing the applications, publishing the results, and printing the permits.
    Not sure if I'd go that far, but I could be wrong. In looking at 2008 applicants alone, there were 19,196 Bison Applicants, 1,760 Muskox Applicants, and 83,775 applicants for other game.
    19,196 * $10ea = $191,960
    1,760 * $10 ea = $17,600
    83,775 * $5 ea = $418,875
    = $628,435 total in draw fees alone (not to mention all those residents/nonresidents that purchase a license so that they can apply for a draw, and permit fees if they do happen to draw)

    Just some math, who knows...

  18. #18
    Member Alaska Gray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 338WM View Post
    Delta bison as of this year is once in a lifetime for non-residents and 5 years for residents. That is new. And personaly I like it !
    There will be a proposal this year to do the same for Kodiak or Musk ox. I knew the guy who wrote the proposal for the Bison. this what he told me. The goal is to have the two mentioned above to have the same rules as Bison.
    Living the Alaskan Dream
    Gary Keller
    Anchorage, AK

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    The state probably loses money on the drawing permit application fees vrs. the administrative costs of processing the applications, publishing the results, and printing the permits.
    Not sure what all your tag fees are but I'm guessing F&G is making at least a little off the fees. The main benifit is in tourism $$$ to local businesses which in turn is good for the state. I know this to be so here in Montana and have little doubt it's part of the equation there.

  20. #20

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    Mabey I was looking at the wrong place of the draw tags, but is looked like most of the people that drew tag were from Alaska. The Fish and Game might look at setting a certin number of tags on a draw for people that live in Alaska and a numnbe of tags for those of us how don't. Just a ideal.

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