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Thread: Commercial Fishermen in Cook Inlet - stats

  1. #1
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    Default Commercial Fishermen in Cook Inlet - stats

    I finally found the link for the F&G statistics on the commercial fishing permits in Cook Inlet and the rest of Alaska:

    Take a look at: http://www.cfec.state.ak.us/SPCS/MENUS.HTM

    There is some real interesting information buried in all these figures. For instance, you may hear about how many permits are held by Alaskans -or at least people who claim to live in AK. However - take a look at the active permits - the ones that are actuall being fished. For active drift gillnetters in Cook Inlet last year slightly over 40% were held by non-residents (166 out of 405). Again, these figures don't even include those who claim AK residency but live most of the year somewhere else. How many of those there are I haven't a clue - but I bet there at least a few.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

  2. #2
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    Default So what?

    I asked you this earlier and you didn't answer...........so what?

    We already pointed out that the majority of sportfishers ARE NOT RESIDENTS EITHER. So what is your point again? I notice you conviently don't mention that. Or is it ok in your book unless it's commerical?

  3. #3
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    Default stats

    These are all the stats for commercial fishermen including their catches - many many millions of fish caught in Cook Inlet. I'll add the millions up when I get time and post the figures.

    I've not found many stats on the sport fishermen other than the licenses sold information and the angler day information.

    According to the F&G there are an average of over 275,000 angler days each year. If you take the weir counts and subtract out the minimum escapement for spawning OR the fish catchable out of the total run you come up with about the same number of fish caught - around 200- 300,00 fish at the most At least a sizeable portion of these are caught by resident fishermen - I'd say half but its probably more from my experience.

    At best you may have 100,000 to 150,00 fish caught by out of state sport fishermen. This barely a drop in the bucket comapred to the commercial guys catching millions.

    Also look at the licensing fees generated and compare the revenue from the sale of out of state sport license to fish caught. I'm willing to bet the state revenue per fish from each out of state sport fishermen is at least 100 times the revenue the state gets from each fish caught by out of state commercial fisherman. It is probably much more if you consider the economic benefits of sport fishing.

    Perhaps you can now see why I dont't get too excited about the catch by out of state sport fishermen.

    Since you have by now assumed that I'm a guide or have a economical connection to sport fishing - I DO NOT. In fact I don't even like tourism and personally feel that it should be taxed to the extent that the number of tourist including non-resident sport fishermen is greatly reduced.


    Quote Originally Posted by Akbrownsfan View Post
    I asked you this earlier and you didn't answer...........so what?

    We already pointed out that the majority of sportfishers ARE NOT RESIDENTS EITHER. So what is your point again? I notice you conviently don't mention that. Or is it ok in your book unless it's commerical?
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

  4. #4
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    Default Can't do math, or read..

    Quote Originally Posted by tvfinak View Post
    I finally found the link for the F&G statistics on the commercial fishing permits in Cook Inlet and the rest of Alaska:

    Take a look at: http://www.cfec.state.ak.us/SPCS/MENUS.HTM

    There is some real interesting information buried in all these figures. For instance, you may hear about how many permits are held by Alaskans -or at least people who claim to live in AK. However - take a look at the active permits - the ones that are actuall being fished. For active drift gillnetters in Cook Inlet last year slightly over 40% were held by non-residents (166 out of 405). Again, these figures don't even include those who claim AK residency but live most of the year somewhere else. How many of those there are I haven't a clue - but I bet there at least a few.
    First, there are 571 active Cook Inlet drift gillnet permits. 405 of them are resident. 166 non-resident. Doing the correct math, 405 out 571 is 71% resident, 29% non-resident.

    Also there are 737 Cook Inlet set gillnet permits. 612 resident. 125 non-resident. Doing the correct math, over 83% are resident.

    There are 82 Cook Inlet purse seine permits. 75 resident. 7 non-resident. Over 91% are resident.

    So about 80% of all Cook Inlet commercial fishing permits are resident.

    On the other hand, according to the latest ADFG license sales figures, only 47% of sport fishing licenses are resident.

    tvfinak, your post here, along with the last several you've made, are simply way off base and exemplify an anti-commercial fishing tone backed by a total lack of understanding. Instead of complaining and pointing fingers at the commercial fishermen, you could be out filling your freezer...unless you feel you don't have enough opportunity to do that???

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    Default You are correct - and incorrect

    You are correct on the figures- only 29% of the active drift net holders are non -residents - I had mis-read the AK total as total permits - my mistake from my haste. I have read too many charts lately. I will certainly do better when I add up the total fish caught.

    You are INCORRECT when you state that I can anti-commercial fisherman. Where have I blamed the commerical guys for anything - you have not read my posting very well. My beef is with the management plan as I keep repeating. I don't assume that you are anti-sport and ant-personal use - or should I make that assumption? You certainly seem be very defensive of the commercial trade - by your logic that make you an anti-sport fishemen -right

    I had heard but not verified that half of all the sport fishing license sold are non-resident. Do you have a link to any further data - I haven't found that one yet. I did see that many people are not re-newing their license this year - it must be due to all the wonderful opportunities for catching fish do you think?

    As to not being out filling my freezer - with the present fish count and gas prices I just can't afford it! Besides, I have to work two jobs and don't get a lot of time off. I have to plan my trips to maximize the fish caught for time and money spent. I pity all the poor people who don't have as good of sucess as I do - not wonder the count of resident sport fishermen keeps dropping.


    Quote Originally Posted by Grampyfishes View Post
    First, there are 571 active Cook Inlet drift gillnet permits. 405 of them are resident. 166 non-resident. Doing the correct math, 405 out 571 is 71% resident, 29% non-resident.

    Also there are 737 Cook Inlet set gillnet permits. 612 resident. 125 non-resident. Doing the correct math, over 83% are resident.

    There are 82 Cook Inlet purse seine permits. 75 resident. 7 non-resident. Over 91% are resident.

    So about 80% of all Cook Inlet commercial fishing permits are resident.

    On the other hand, according to the latest ADFG license sales figures, only 47% of sport fishing licenses are resident.

    tvfinak, your post here, along with the last several you've made, are simply way off base and exemplify an anti-commercial fishing tone backed by a total lack of understanding. Instead of complaining and pointing fingers at the commercial fishermen, you could be out filling your freezer...unless you feel you don't have enough opportunity to do that???
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    Default

    Thank you for correcting yourself. Had I not posted, this would've been yet another run-away of misinformation. It's going to be a long battle if you continue to misunderstand and misrepresent information.

    I understand your beef is with the managment plan...primarily how you feel the sport fishermen are slighted by the commercial fishermen. In one breath you speak to revenues, in another to not enough fish. Nowhere have you shown how the current management plan isn't working for you, or how your plan (?whatever it is?) would work for everyone.

    Here is a link to the licenses sold last year. Please do your own homework from now on...before you post!

    http://www.admin.adfg.state.ak.us/ad...e/2007info.pdf

    Finally, let me get this straight....we should manage our fisheries based on what you can afford, how many jobs you have, how much time off you get, and when you can go?

    You've just exemplified the problem with many sports fishermen....they expect the fish to be there when they are. But it doesn't work that way. Fisheries managers aren't Houdini's. And fish aren't as predictable as a FedEx package.

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tvfinak View Post
    .....that it should be taxed to the extent that the number of tourist including non-resident sport fishermen is greatly reduced.
    That my friend is the only way you and the rest of us resident sport fisherman are going to get our allocation......the problem is we will have to overcome the influence of the commercial SPORT fish guiding industry.

    The tonnage dudes are not the problem.


  8. #8
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    Default Not misunderstood or dilberately represented

    It appears you are accussing me of dilberately misrepresenting information instead of a simple mistake. I apologized for a simple error in reading the tables and admitted my silly mistake - is that not enough for you? If posted the link also so anyone could look for themselves - that should tell you something.

    I'm am happy to post all the all the good links I find. If you resent posting one you find and I missed I apologize for putting you to all that trouble.

    Note I have not attached anyone's character or accused anyone of anything yet I am accussed of hating commercial fisherman's guts etc. Why anyone who disagrees with me do so in an agreeable manner?

    I don't expect anything to be managed for me or my pocket book or time table. Neither do I expect it to be managed so someone else's pocket book can be filled at everyone else's expense. Perhaps that is being selfish in your eyes?


    Quote Originally Posted by Grampyfishes View Post

    Thank you for correcting yourself. Had I not posted, this would've been yet another run-away of misinformation. It's going to be a long battle if you continue to misunderstand and misrepresent information.

    I understand your beef is with the managment plan...primarily how you feel the sport fishermen are slighted by the commercial fishermen. In one breath you speak to revenues, in another to not enough fish. Nowhere have you shown how the current management plan isn't working for you, or how your plan (?whatever it is?) would work for everyone.

    Here is a link to the licenses sold last year. Please do your own homework from now on...before you post!

    http://www.admin.adfg.state.ak.us/ad...e/2007info.pdf

    Finally, let me get this straight....we should manage our fisheries based on what you can afford, how many jobs you have, how much time off you get, and when you can go?

    You've just exemplified the problem with many sports fishermen....they expect the fish to be there when they are. But it doesn't work that way. Fisheries managers aren't Houdini's. And fish aren't as predictable as a FedEx package.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    Default

    tvfinak, nobody is accusing you of hating anyone. That's weird.

    The fact is, you started this thread trying to make some point about commercial fishermen, comparing them to sport fishermen. What for, I don't know. And you topped it off with bad information, slanted toward the side of sport fishermen. Some of your other recent posts are similar. You do have an anti-commercial fishing tone, whether you think so or not. And surely you must realize folks read what you post, and many think you are speaking as someone who understands the fishery, fishery managment, and the issues. But clearly you are not, and in fact a tad bit on the wreckless side. So expect some heated discussion.

    The best advice I can give you is to present your issue completely, along with your solution and how it would work. You haven't done that.

    It appears your issue is not enough fish. But other than stating that you can't afford to fish because of gas prices, you have to work, no time off, etc., I fail to see any justification that there are not enough fish. You have talked (in other threads) about the commercial fishermen taking them all, wrong priority, bad management plan, revenue, non-residents, and the list goes on. Yet I don't see you on the river trying to fill your freezer while the rest of us are (or already have). You just complain.

    Your plan seems to be lost yield so there are more fish present when your schedule allows you to fish them. That seems selfish to me.

    You can't catch fish by complaining about those who are.

  10. #10
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Grampyfishes View Post
    First, there are 571 active Cook Inlet drift gillnet permits. 405 of them are resident. 166 non-resident. Doing the correct math, 405 out 571 is 71% resident, 29% non-resident.

    Also there are 737 Cook Inlet set gillnet permits. 612 resident. 125 non-resident. Doing the correct math, over 83% are resident.

    There are 82 Cook Inlet purse seine permits. 75 resident. 7 non-resident. Over 91% are resident.

    So about 80% of all Cook Inlet commercial fishing permits are resident.

    On the other hand, according to the latest ADFG license sales figures, only 47% of sport fishing licenses are resident......
    And 100% of legal personal use fishermen are Alaska residents.

  11. #11
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    Default Not compared

    I didn't say that you are accussed me of hating anyone - just that seems to be a common response by others to a lot of my postings - that I'm anti-commercial fishermen etc.

    I said it sounded like you were accussing me of misrepresenting. If I had intended to deliberatly misrepresnt something I won't have cited the source.

    I didn't compare commercial fishermen to sport fishermen - I didn't even mention sport fishermen when I started this tread. I starte dthe thread stating the number of ACTIVE RESIDENT TO NON-RESIDENT COMMERCIAL FISHERMEN. I did this to correct some misleading information elsewhere comparing total permits.

    My issue - that I have stated many times - is that the current management plan for late run sockeye - the bulk of the Kenai Run salmon- does not include any provision to insure that sport and persoanal use fishermen are included in each annual run of of fish. The run is now managed for maximum commercial harvest. Sport and personal use are only allocated any fish in excess of what the commercial fishermen catch and what is needed for the minimum escapement. Is my issue so hard to understand?

    I would like to see the management policy changed to include the sport and personal use fishermen in the management of the harvest instead of just managing for commercial harvest. One way this could be done is by allowing more fish up river through out the early run and perhaps spreading the personal use out into early Aug. The only real difference would be in a more meger run where under policy the sport fishery is shutdown although the commercial guys still get fish - remember the "manage for maximum commercial harvest" thing.

    My plan - however implemented - is to insure there is an sizeable allocation of the fish in excess of the substainable run shared with the sport fishermen. More fish in the river means more fish to be caught. We are already having a significant number of license holders not renewing this year - some more fish in the river certainly won't hurt things any.

    As to the rest of the things you misrepresented me as stating- are you doing this deliberatley or what?

    Why are you so anti-sport fishermen anyway?





    Quote Originally Posted by Grampyfishes View Post
    tvfinak, nobody is accusing you of hating anyone. That's weird.

    The fact is, you started this thread trying to make some point about commercial fishermen, comparing them to sport fishermen. What for, I don't know. And you topped it off with bad information, slanted toward the side of sport fishermen. Some of your other recent posts are similar. You do have an anti-commercial fishing tone, whether you think so or not. And surely you must realize folks read what you post, and many think you are speaking as someone who understands the fishery, fishery managment, and the issues. But clearly you are not, and in fact a tad bit on the wreckless side. So expect some heated discussion.

    The best advice I can give you is to present your issue completely, along with your solution and how it would work. You haven't done that.

    It appears your issue is not enough fish. But other than stating that you can't afford to fish because of gas prices, you have to work, no time off, etc., I fail to see any justification that there are not enough fish. You have talked (in other threads) about the commercial fishermen taking them all, wrong priority, bad management plan, revenue, non-residents, and the list goes on. Yet I don't see you on the river trying to fill your freezer while the rest of us are (or already have). You just complain.

    Your plan seems to be lost yield so there are more fish present when your schedule allows you to fish them. That seems selfish to me.

    You can't catch fish by complaining about those who are.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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