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Thread: need accuracy help with 284 winchester

  1. #1

    Default need accuracy help with 284 winchester

    I have a remington 700 titantium short action with a custom bansner stock and custom barrel #2 contour 23" long threaded for 284 winchester with the wyatts 3 inch magazine extender. Stock is bedded and barel is free floated.Ever since the new barrel, I have not been able to get the gun to shoot worth a ****. I am getting, at the best 2 1/2" groups for 5 shots at 100 yds. I have tried several popular powders adn loads for the cartridge- varget, rl 15, 120 gr tsx, 140 gr tsx, and 140 gr ballistics tips, even different primers. Nothing seems to shoot. I can get good groups with a lot of my other guns, so I don't think I'm the problem. I have a leuplld VX3 2.5-8 scope with leupold dual dovetail mounts. I can only think that since my gun has a long throat, I can only seat the bullet .20 off the lands, due to magazine box restrictions. Do you guys have any thoughts? My next step is a new barrel, even though this has only about 100 rounds through it total!! I need help!!

  2. #2
    Member Big Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redneck doctor View Post
    I have a remington 700 titantium short action with a custom bansner stock and custom barrel #2 contour 23" long threaded for 284 winchester with the wyatts 3 inch magazine extender. Stock is bedded and barel is free floated.Ever since the new barrel, I have not been able to get the gun to shoot worth a ****. I am getting, at the best 2 1/2" groups for 5 shots at 100 yds. I have tried several popular powders adn loads for the cartridge- varget, rl 15, 120 gr tsx, 140 gr tsx, and 140 gr ballistics tips, even different primers. Nothing seems to shoot. I can get good groups with a lot of my other guns, so I don't think I'm the problem. I have a leuplld VX3 2.5-8 scope with leupold dual dovetail mounts. I can only think that since my gun has a long throat, I can only seat the bullet .20 off the lands, due to magazine box restrictions. Do you guys have any thoughts? My next step is a new barrel, even though this has only about 100 rounds through it total!! I need help!!
    Answers please?

    You have a custom barrel? Who's barrel and who did the barrel work? You bedded the rifle? You do not say what the twist is for the barrel?
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tryants." (Thomas Jefferson

  3. #3

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    barrel is made by Benchmark barrels out of Arlington, WA. they did the bedding, too. tiwst is 1:9.5" I believe. they did a 30-06 barel for me, which works out really well. No matter what I do the groups are always 2.5-3.5 inches, but very consistent in that ball park. Is it the .2 jump to the rifling due to freebore?

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    Member Big Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redneck doctor View Post
    barrel is made by Benchmark barrels out of Arlington, WA. they did the bedding, too. tiwst is 1:9.5" I believe. they did a 30-06 barel for me, which works out really well. No matter what I do the groups are always 2.5-3.5 inches, but very consistent in that ball park. Is it the .2 jump to the rifling due to freebore?
    The boys at Benchmark do good work and their barrels have a fine reputation for accuracy. They bedded the stock, that's out of the picture.

    I hate to say this, but here goes. SCOPE could be the problem. First things first. Pull the scope and check the bases. Make absolutely sure the bases are on tight. I hope you put thread sealant on the screws, if not, clean the screws with Isopropyl Alcohol and the screw holes. Lock tite the screws after ever thing dries and tighten.

    Put the scope back on the rifle and return to the range with a box of factory ammo. Set up your rifle in the bags or rest.. It must be in a solid rest. Now what you are about to do, is square the target. Bore sight the rifle at the center of the target. Move the cross hairs to center of the target. Fire a round off to verify you hit center. Next, making sure you have returned the rifle to the same place that you shot the center. Now without touching the rifle, move the cross hairs to the upper left corner of the target, fire off a round, repeat in each of the four corners of the target. If the shots go into each corner the scope is good if not you have a problem scope.

    If none of these tests show up as a problem, call the guys at Benchmark barrels and discuss the problem with them.

    Did you take the rifle action out of the stock since you got it back from them? If you did, make sure the action screws are tight. But if you haven't taken it out of the stock, check to make sure the screws are tight anyway. They may have pulled the barreled action to clean it after testing the rifle and not gotten the screws back in tightly enough. Call and ask what the inch pound setting for the screws are. I hope you have an inch pound torque wrench.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tryants." (Thomas Jefferson

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    Twist too fast?

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by redneck doctor View Post
    I have a remington 700 titantium short action with a custom bansner stock and custom barrel #2 contour 23" long threaded for 284 winchester with the wyatts 3 inch magazine extender. Stock is bedded and barel is free floated.Ever since the new barrel, I have not been able to get the gun to shoot worth a ****. I am getting, at the best 2 1/2" groups for 5 shots at 100 yds. I have tried several popular powders adn loads for the cartridge- varget, rl 15, 120 gr tsx, 140 gr tsx, and 140 gr ballistics tips, even different primers. Nothing seems to shoot. I can get good groups with a lot of my other guns, so I don't think I'm the problem. I have a leuplld VX3 2.5-8 scope with leupold dual dovetail mounts. I can only think that since my gun has a long throat, I can only seat the bullet .20 off the lands, due to magazine box restrictions. Do you guys have any thoughts? My next step is a new barrel, even though this has only about 100 rounds through it total!! I need help!!
    I've got three 284's right now- a Win 100, a Savage 99 and a custom on a lefty S&L action- and I've owned some others. While bullet jump can be a factor in accuracy with any gun, I have never seen one of my rifles turn in 2.5" groups with all bullets that did lots better with less jump. I'm with Al on the scope, but if that's not it, there are other things to try.

    Put some Hornady 139 or 154 grain spire points through it. The orgive is so sharp, you can often stay inside max OAL while pushing the orgive way forward and cut the jump. No sacrifice in bullet performance with those bullets on any game you'd normally shoot at 284 velocities. They expand surely, but don't come apart in spite of hype from super premiums.

    Here's on other test to see if jump is the factor. Load some rounds to shorten the bullet jump even if they won't fit the magazine. Then single feed them and shoot for groups. If that tightens things dramatically, then you're onto something. But don't hold your breath for too long. Remember that many Weatherby's are freebored pretty radically with enormous bullet jump, but they're still tack drivers.

  7. #7

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    have you ever heard of leupold dual dovetail mounts being a problem? It seems like the way the bases mount to the rings might be inherently unstable, but then again, maybe i'm just trying to go on a witch hunt. Nevertheless, I'll try oyur advice and probably try another scope while we're at it. thanks again

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildalaska View Post
    Twist too fast?
    No, it's about as good as it gets for the 140's and up.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tryants." (Thomas Jefferson

  9. #9
    Big Stick
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    I'd be more than a little suspect out of the gate,trading with a "Smith" who went to the troubles of a 3" Wyatt box installation and then purposely throated well beyond those very accords. Red flag,as a minimum.

    The stock would make me nervous,as would it's bedding. Base/rings/glass would be suspects as well....................

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Stick View Post
    I'd be more than a little suspect out of the gate,trading with a "Smith" who went to the troubles of a 3" Wyatt box installation and then purposely throated well beyond those very accords. Red flag,as a minimum.

    The stock would make me nervous,as would it's bedding. Base/rings/glass would be suspects as well....................
    I agree with Mr. Stick, it makes no sense to put in a 3 inch box and then throat it so deeply.

    Just for testing I would load up some 175 grain roundnose bullets, You ought to be able to get closer to the lands with those and see if it improves your accuracy. Then you will have a better idea if the deep throating is the problem.

  11. #11
    Big Stick
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    Loading to the lands and refraining the magbox for cursory mechanical extrapolations,is a surefire diagnosis,regarding integrity of the platform.

    As to the 175 RN route,which would of course move the ogive forward at a lesser COAL...none of the projectiles which qualify,are worthy of making an accuracy determination IMHO.

    I'd feed it some known quantities,in accordance to it's slutty throat and read that sign in accordance.

    Good lesson for those pending a build,to give magbox/throat geometry some serious thought,as it's a deal breaker. I like to have throats cut to my supplied dummy rounds and someone who can't/won't do that,is a hack as a minimum.

    No excuse.........................

  12. #12
    Big Stick
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    22" 1-10" 25-284,s/a 700 based,McMillan Mountain Rifle stock,Leupie DD bases,Burris DD Posilign rings,Leupie 1" 3.5-10x 40mm and the issued 2.815" mag confines. Steelbedded FL,2lb trigger and she'll dip often into the high .3's with a few of my favorite projectiles.

    Throated in accordance and I can kiss lands with everything of interest to me.



    I retired the Pink Rifle........................

  13. #13

    Default thanks Big Stick

    I found the problem, boys. It was the Scope!! it was a VX3 2.5-8 leupie. I put another scope on the rifle and she is shooting 3/8-7/8" commonly at 100 yds- realistically better than me. I will reinstall the scope and try with some of my proven loads just to double check, but I may have to send the scope back to the factory to utilize their lifetime guarantee. I feel much better now, especially since I knwowthe rifle can shoot. THe best loads were using RL 15 or varget with 140gr TSX bullets. I may try the 120 grain tsx as well, but we'll see how she goes....

  14. #14
    Member Big Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redneck doctor View Post
    I found the problem, boys. It was the Scope!! it was a VX3 2.5-8 leupie. I put another scope on the rifle and she is shooting 3/8-7/8" commonly at 100 yds- realistically better than me. I will reinstall the scope and try with some of my proven loads just to double check, but I may have to send the scope back to the factory to utilize their lifetime guarantee. I feel much better now, especially since I knwowthe rifle can shoot. THe best loads were using RL 15 or varget with 140gr TSX bullets. I may try the 120 grain tsx as well, but we'll see how she goes....
    I hate to tell you this, I've had more failures with Leupold scopes than any other make of scope. Total reliable scopes are the frozen scopes that are no longer internal adjustable. They use external adjustable mounts.

    I've had scopes go bad on me in the middle of a string, for no apparent reason. The ones that have gone south all of a sudden that have been a mystery, have been Leupold.

    Hey live and learn! I happy you got the problem narrowed down.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tryants." (Thomas Jefferson

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