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Thread: fed subsistence shafts the rest of us...again

  1. #1
    Member homerdave's Avatar
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    Exclamation fed subsistence shafts the rest of us...again

    well, i brought this up in this thread a while ago, and nobody seemed too concerned..
    http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/...ad.php?t=22537
    called our area bio today to ask what had come of the meeting. well, the regional subsistence advisory committee and the fed. board soundly rejected F&G's proposals and the proposals of one of our AC members , so the late season "subsistence" bull hunt in the tustemena area will continue.
    also, cooper landing was granted "customary and traditional" status, so they get to hunt subsistence moose.
    since the feds now have an unregulated hunt, the state will be ending the late season drawing hunts in the tustemena trophy bull area, as they will no longer know where or exactly how many bulls are being taken.

    sounds like hope will be the next community to apply for "C&T" designation, and they will be targeting the kenai mtn caribou herd.
    given cooper landings precedent, there is little doubt that hope will get subsistence status if they apply.
    this would more than likely end the kenai mountain caribou drawing hunt (DC001).

    if you want more info, call the regional bio in soldotna or homer.
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  2. #2
    Mark
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    Most of the Kenai Peninsula is federal land.

    I kissed it goodbye long ago.........

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    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Customary and traditional for the Kenai Mountains caribou? They're an introduced herd! You can't have traditional use of a group of animals that isn't even native to the area.

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    Member homerdave's Avatar
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    Talking

    gee brian, that argument makes sense to me.... but then i'm not a fed.<grin>
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    Member jkb's Avatar
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    Lemme guess we'll have customary and traditional subsistence of kings in the Homer lagoon next. With our litigious society I can't believe someone can't figure out how to sue the feds out of subsistence.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming-----WOW-----what a ride!
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    Member greythorn3's Avatar
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    screwed again!

    Ray
    Semper Fi!

  7. #7
    Member AKBassking's Avatar
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    Default Call and Write Palin

    It is time to take back control of our State from the Feds and run them out.

    The State should get this back into the Court system! Let's play the Environmental Waco Terrorist game!

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  8. #8
    Mark
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    Quote Originally Posted by jkb View Post
    ....With our litigious society I can't believe someone can't figure out how to sue the feds out of subsistence.
    We did.

    It was dropped. With prejudice:

    .....Alaska v. Babbitt: Similar to the "McDowell II" case, the Fund filed an Amicus brief on behalf of the State in the historic Alaska v. Babbitt case. The suit challenged the federal constitutionality of ANILCA with regard to equal treatment under the law. Governor Knowles dropped the suit with prejudice, extinguishing one of the best chances of resolving the subsistence issue in over a decade.

    Leg. Council v. Babbitt: Pending Governor Knowles decision to drop the Alaska v. Babbitt lawsuit, the Fund joined with the Legislature in the Legislative Council v. Babbitt lawsuit, again challenging the constitutionality of ANILCA. The suit was dismissed due to lack of standing......
    It's a done deal. We're screwed. It only goes downhill from here.

  9. #9
    Member AKBassking's Avatar
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    Default There has to be a way....

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    We did.

    It was dropped. With prejudice:



    It's a done deal. We're screwed. It only goes downhill from here.

    We need a good Alaskan lawyer!!!! Come on Ms. Gov let get the ball rolling and take on the Feds!!

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  10. #10
    Mark
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKBassking View Post
    There has to be a way....
    ...
    Nope.

    Thrown out by our buddy Russ Holland and backed up by the infamous Ninth Circuit.

    And the Supreme Court refused to hear an appeal:

    U.S. Supreme Court rejects subsistence lawsuit
    FAIRBANKS, Alaska (AP) - The U-S Supreme Court has rejected a lawsuit that claims the federal government unconstitutionally favors rural hunters and fishermen in Alaska.

    The lawsuit was brought by a group of urban Alaska residents and several non-Alaska hunters and fishermen who objected to federal regulations stemming from the 1980 Alaska National Interest Lands Conservation Act.

    Under ANILCA, rural Alaskans are given a priority for subsistence uses of fish and wildlife on federal lands and waters.

    Warren Olson of Anchorage brought the suit on behalf of himself, the late Dale Bondurant of Soldotna, Kodiak guide Jeff Jacobson and four of Jacobson's clients.

    In 1998, Jacobson's clients lost their chance to hunt Dall sheep in Northwest Alaska when the Federal Subsistence Board effectively allowed sheep hunting there by rural residents only.

    Olson's group said the preference violates the equal protection clause of the U-S Constitution.

    They lost in federal district and appeals courts and the U-S Supreme Court rejected the appeal without comment.
    (Fairbanks Daily News-Miner)
    You're screwed on federal lands, and as time goes on, it will get more and more onerous.

    The Kenai Peninsula is primarily federal lands.

    Watch; Mat-Su has to go to the Kenai for fish, and the majority of Peninsula folks may end up having to go to Mat-Su (of which there is nearly no federal land) to hunt.

    How ironic! And I'm sure the feds have their eyes on fish management in the Kenai, too. We'll probably hand it over to them before it's over, too.

    Remember that subsistence was demanded by some Alaskans who wanted exclusive rights over other Alaskans.

    We're killing ourselves here, folks, with basic greed and selfishness. It's really that simple.

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    Member Big Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    We did.

    It was dropped. With prejudice:



    It's a done deal. We're screwed. It only goes downhill from here.
    Mark: with prejudice means the issue is can be revisited. The door is open on the issue. Without prejudice means it's a done deal.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tryants." (Thomas Jefferson

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Al View Post
    Mark: with prejudice means the issue is can be revisited. The door is open on the issue. Without prejudice means it's a done deal.
    You've got it backwards.

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    Default Alaska

    Why do you all think the state can do any better, the State of Alaska system currently is not fair will never be. Subsistence should be strait and simple, if you and your family live there and depend on the meat or fish, you should scientific share of available game. Subsistence should not be hope in your RV in Anchorage, drive 200 miles, unload your four wheelers and spend $1000 dollars getting one caribou. Meat would be cheaper to go to the store. Then next if there is game left let it go registration for residents and then open when and only when, there is enough game for all to hunt.

    Terry

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    Default definition

    From law.com law dictionary:

    dismissal
    n. 1) the act of voluntarily terminating a criminal prosecution or a lawsuit or one of its causes of action by one of the parties. 2) a judge's ruling that a lawsuit or criminal charge is terminated. 3) an appeals court's act of dismissing an appeal, letting the lower court decision stand. 4) the act of a plaintiff dismissing a lawsuit upon settling the case. Such a dismissal may be dismissal with prejudice, meaning it can never be filed again, or dismissal without prejudice, leaving open the possibility of bringing the suit again if the defendant does not follow through on the terms of the settlement.

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    Mark
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    .....Subsistence should not be hope in your RV in Anchorage, drive 200 miles, unload your four wheelers and spend $1000 dollars getting one caribou. Meat would be cheaper to go to the store.....
    Did you know you can have meat (or anything else, for that matter) shipped to any village that has an airport?

    Did you know that Costco, Sam's Club, etc have "Bush Service"? They'll do your shopping for you and take it to the airport to be shipped. You just send them a shopping list.

    Did you know that there are food co-ops right here in Anchorage that have meat shipped to them from Delta ranches/meat processors?

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    Member Big Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaskaflyer331 View Post
    You've got it backwards.

    Your right, my bad.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tryants." (Thomas Jefferson

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    Default Thats what im talking about

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    Did you know you can have meat (or anything else, for that matter) shipped to any village that has an airport?

    Did you know that Costco, Sam's Club, etc have "Bush Service"? They'll do your shopping for you and take it to the airport to be shipped. You just send them a shopping list.

    Did you know that there are food co-ops right here in Anchorage that have meat shipped to them from Delta ranches/meat processors?
    Thats exactly my point, but it will cost you about a buck a pound to ship the meat out to the villages. If you harvest the animals around your home its subsistence. Subsistence only gives the state more power to discriminate.

    terry

  18. #18
    Mark
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    Originally Posted by Mark
    Did you know you can have meat (or anything else, for that matter) shipped to any village that has an airport?

    Did you know that Costco, Sam's Club, etc have "Bush Service"? They'll do your shopping for you and take it to the airport to be shipped. You just send them a shopping list.

    Did you know that there are food co-ops right here in Anchorage that have meat shipped to them from Delta ranches/meat processors?

    Thats exactly my point, but it will cost you about a buck a pound to ship the meat out to the villages.....
    And if you shoot a moose out there, it will cost you the same buck a pound to ship the meat out of the villages.

    Six of one............

    .....If you harvest the animals around your home its subsistence.....
    Why isn't it "subsistence" if I harvest the animals around my home?

    ....Subsistence only gives the state more power to discriminate.....
    Again, "subsistence" is a creation of the Feds (and/or their wards), not the state.

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