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Thread: The 20D cow hunt

  1. #1
    Member Rock_skipper's Avatar
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    Default The 20D cow hunt

    I want to hear from those of you out there that are for or against the hunt. Please tell us what part of the state you live in, and why you think this is a good thing. E.S.

  2. #2
    Mark
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    I defer to the biologists. If they think the densities are high enough to endanger habitat and support a cow hunt, I'm all for it.

    I live in Palmer. There has been cow hunts here for decades, but they're drawing hunts due to the easy access and popularity.

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    Default Local Deltoid

    I am sure this will stir again as the season gets closer. Here again we just need to try and trust the biologists. They do the counts and surveys and I tend to agree with them on this one, I have seen it. The moose population is booming here and the predators are under control. We need to keep from over populating and having a crash. Last year I kept hearing how nobody has seen any evidance that the moose are over populated here because they haven't seen any starving moose. If that was the case it would already be too late. We have to try and bring the herd down to a safe level so the habitat will sustain them and acording to their studies we are really pushing the envelope here, almost twice the normal densities. I don't understand the hesitance to take cow moose??? They shoot doe deer and cow caribou everywhere but shooting a cow moose for some people seems to really raise their hackles. We got our first cows last year and I can tell you that it is the best moose meat I have ever eaten. We have more to thin this year and yes there are still LOTS of moose out there after the hunt last year. The pilot and Biologist both told me there was no differance in their counts from the year before, Took 500 moose and no decline in the numbers,Hmmm makes ya thing that maybe that all we took was the growth of the herd for last year. I heard allot of people say how they must have killed all the moose because all of the sudden there were no moose on the highway during the winter, we didn't have any snow!! They didn't move as much. Now that it is cooling off there are moose evrywhere!!! Kinda neat to see that F&G was right. Well I think I put in at least my 2 cents worth here. Go eat some cows, they are really tasty!!!

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    There was an extensive posting on this last year.....check it out!

    Deltoid has it right.....starving moose is an indication that management has failed or excessive snow has prevented travel......we seldom get excessive snow in Delta.

    The moose thrived because of premium habitat created by several fires two or three decades ago.....that habitat is now maturing and will not be able to sustain the herd forever.....

    The twinning rates have dropped to the area of 20%......this is an indication that browse is no longer optimum......some areas of the state have twinning rates of >50%.

    If you are accustomed to working with engineers or accountants that deal in exact quantities, wildlife census numbers will drive you nuts......it is not an exact science.
    Usually the moose counts are calculated using a "confidence factor" of + or - 20%.....so there theortically could be a swing of almost 40% in the count over two years.....several years data are required to develop that trend line.....

    The Delta Advisory Committee held back for several years before authorizing the cow hunt. There were many heated debates and public meetings full of angry citizenry.....valued members of the AC quit. Concensus was reached and cow hunts began in 2007 {IIRC}......numbers were reduced for 2008 as goals were achieved in the Donnelly Dome area.

    The situation is being monitored as closely as economically possible. I've had numerous neighbors tell me this week that they are seeing a lot of moose and that night driving is especially hazardous.

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    Default Well said Vern

    I think we may be co-comitee members. Exactly rite on this one. I heard all winter long how people were not seeing moose along the roads and therefor we had wiped out the cow population. NOT TRUE!! The moose are beginning to come out of the woodwork as fall aproaches. They won't even believe the flying counts. The thing that real hit my funny bone last winter with the comments was that people were telling me how they weren't seeing moose in areas "That they always saw moose before". Come to find out after asking them they we not even in an area that was hunted for cows??? All a matter of perception. Folks that don't like the cow hunt can blame lower percieved numbers in an area that wasn't even hunted?? Funny how that works.

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    From the reports that I have looked at over the last couple years I agree with most of the above posters. There seems to be sound data to support the hunt. With that said I had a clear conscience when I put the wife and I in for the hunt. I am excited that she won her first tag and will be chasing 798 cows for her first hunt!

  7. #7

    Default As a person who..

    helped hunt 5 cows in 2 of the areas last year, all I can say is I saw more moose in a few days than I have seen in YEARS of moose hunting in 20E. We saw hundreds of cows and some groups with 15-20 in them. There was an obvious need for the hunt. I tip my hat to Vern and the Delta AC for making this tough decision. I think it is one that was necessary for the over all health of the herd.

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    Default Congrats

    That is great, my wife also drew her first. There are literally hundreds of moose out there. What gets me is all the people I heard last winter that were claiming they were gone, wiped out, never to be seen again. I am guessing they never got more than 5 feet from the highway. I am glad they are not in the F&G! Funny how they can judge the population of a moose herd from their car window going 65 down the highway. I am so looking forward to this hunt again this winter. One of the most enjoyable trips I have made. I had 8 kids, not all mine, out on those hunts last year and they all got to be involved in the process of gathering meat for their families and they all had a great time. Now if I can get my boys to learn to gut and skin like the old man I will have it made!!!

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    I heard that one of the reasons the biologists called for a cow hunt was overbrowse. I can,t say that I personaly saw any evidence of willows or any other moose browse chewed to the nub anywhere. So I am not convinced. This practice has been implimented elsewhere in the state and was a miserable failure resulting in hunting being closed altogether for years. Plus I do not trust anyone from any gov't agency telling me what is best for me or in this case the moose. I don't care how much book learnin they have.
    Just my 2 cents.
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  10. #10

    Default I really doubt the biologists..

    are using "book learning" when it comes to this. They have enough know how to make these calls. If they didn't do the cow hunts and they crashed, then some people would be ranting about how "they didn't" do their jobs. ****ed if you do ****ed if you don't. I am going to trust the people in the field and the people doing the studies a bit more than couch biologists. I am not saying I don't want to listen to people that live in the area either. I hunted there last year and I can honestly say that I saw more moose in 5 days of hunting there than I have in all the years I ever hunted moose combined. I only saw about 10 bulls out of the hundred or so moose with saw. Lots of cows with single calves. No twins at all.

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    Default 20d cow hunt

    Anyone know the best way to acess this area it would get if you could share thanks mike

  12. #12
    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    I defer to the biologists. If they think the densities are high enough to endanger habitat and support a cow hunt, I'm all for it.

    I live in Palmer. There has been cow hunts here for decades, but they're drawing hunts due to the easy access and popularity.
    i too defer here but would rather see a draw permit for it... living in Clear and unit 20A, the last few years have been hard not only on the cows but he surviving calfs....

    oh WAIT!!! your not supposed to shoot a cow with a calf at her side.....

    too bad to many folk didn't take the time to watch the cow for an hour to see if the little guy was bedded down some distance off....

    last year i found 4 dead calves on the propery... this year i found 9 sets of calf remains out in ferry.. all in good browse areas...these were not preditor kills but winter cold kills. all with the head arched back over the spine...
    indicating lack of mothers milk... any one farm raised has seen it in their own stock when mom gets taken away early. and lambs and calves are left to defend on their own.

    i am against the CURRENT method of the cow hunt. a race for a few tags by hundreds of people. not enough time is taken . from what i am seeing they are killing 2 and waisting one by these methods.

    Vince
    Last edited by Vince; 10-05-2008 at 12:14. Reason: spelling
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    Thanks Vince, that was one of my points, have had calfs come in to the yard and you know they are not going to make it threw the winter, but all these guys that are after easy meat don't get it. If all the hunters seen the areas closed off this year to the cow hunts that were open last year, and were supposed to be open this year, you would think they would get a clue. To all of you out there who think I keep on harpping on this ( I have been trying to keep off here and not voice my thoughts) this whole thing is wrong. The reason you late hunters see so many moose in late fall is that they come out of the valleys and herd up down by Donlley for the rut. I know I can't get threw to all of you, but think of it as another place off limits later on in a few years. For every cow you shoot you kill 4 genarations, and the ones that have calfs,( that you don't see) you just did it 2x. I've said my piece, and I will not be on here on this subject again, thanks E.S.

  14. #14

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    I get what you are saying about the cow hunts taking more animals than just that cow in the long run. Although I still believe that there are a LOT of moose around the Delta area. Granted last year at this time I was up there on my cow draw permit and saw a amazing number of moose. I attributed that the same way you did as them coming out of the valley and hills and grouping up for the rut.

    I believed that was the reason until I went back to Delta this fall for a caribou hunt. Never seen so many moose in one area. This is the middle of August. Saw 13 different bull moose. At one time I could see 7 different ones just across one hillside one morning and atleast double that many cows. To be honest I saw more moose in August than I did in October.

    So this led me to believe that F&G might have the numbers of the moose in the area a little more correct than I intially thought they were overestimating.

  15. #15

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    I oppose the hunts for cow moose. Southcentral is home. They sucked all of you in, with the registration hunts for a couple of years and now have most of it on permit only. You my friends have now been ADFGized. It has worked in many areas, for many years. Suckers and they know it. All they have to do to keep the moose population down is kill more bulls without antler restrictions and longer seasons. No rocket science, just plain old common sense. But they would rather limit you in some way and get you to play the pay to hunt game. And it keeps the bios working, doing all the studies and more bios need more people to boss them around, hence the Admin and Exec branches of ADFG get bigger and more money to spend. Pretty disgusting really, the whole sordid affair, as even the Local Advisory Boards refuse to call BS.

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    Member jkb's Avatar
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    I hunted moose in 20d for several seasons. We tried to tell the Bio's that the moose density warranted at least making it a 3 brow tine area instead of 4. I would have said make it any bull with a small draw cow hunt. Now we have a 2-3 year cow slaughter. The size of this hunt would not need to be this big if earlier steps were taken.
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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaska_Lanche View Post
    I get what you are saying about the cow hunts taking more animals than just that cow in the long run. Although I still believe that there are a LOT of moose around the Delta area. Granted last year at this time I was up there on my cow draw permit and saw a amazing number of moose. I attributed that the same way you did as them coming out of the valley and hills and grouping up for the rut.

    I believed that was the reason until I went back to Delta this fall for a caribou hunt. Never seen so many moose in one area. This is the middle of August. Saw 13 different bull moose. At one time I could see 7 different ones just across one hillside one morning and at least double that many cows. To be honest I saw more moose in August than I did in October.

    So this led me to believe that F&G might have the numbers of the moose in the area a little more correct than I initially thought they were overestimating.
    Okay on your note here, i heard the same issues around ferry this year, guys saying OMG there are TONS of moose here,,,

    and for a fact we would see 10-45 cows a day and up to 15 bulls, ( until all the any bull tags showed up)

    but what 99.9% of the guys hunting out in 20A this season was I DID NOT see a moose june13th-aug-27th.. as is the case most years... just because you see a lot of moose once a year don't mean they are there.

    when i lived on the Elliott hwy.. i saw moose in my area 2 times a year.. about a week before they started calving we would get up to 60 cows in an area. and then again for the rut... one small valley and stream area the rest of the year there were not any to be seen.

    the fact is when cows are taken this time of year... Many of them also still have a calf at the side and the calf is old enough to wander from mom. so by taking the cow you killed the calf at the same time... even though the REG clearly state you cant.... but how many take an HOUR to watch that cow first. i would guess less then 20% of those that claim they do... BRR-RR its cold theres one looks alone.... BAng.......bet i am wrong? read the threads on the 25c bou hunts from last year.........
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    Smile its great!

    Well I would have to trust the biologists that the cow hunt was needed to prevent a crash or could be supported based on numbers. Other than that is is a great idea. I know people who hadnt harvested a moose in many years finally getting a reasonable hunt and healthy game meat to fill their freezer with. All the competition, the prohibitive odds of drawing tags and the high cost of fly in has many people discouraged and fish and game licenses are dropping. Its not that people dont want to hunt its just they cant justify all the time and expense and not getting any meat. This hunt was a blessing for many families who could enjoy moose meat!
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