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Thread: why the hate for charters?

  1. #1
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    Default why the hate for charters?

    i was in sitka for 2 weeks not to long ago, and noticed something different. there is a common hatred for charter boats, their captains, and their clients. why is that? back here in MI, we dont have commercial boats, and great lakes salmon charters are abundant, so to me, charters are no big deal. what is it about charter boats in AK?

  2. #2
    Mark
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    You answered your own question:

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Gibbs View Post
    .....back here in MI, we dont have commercial boats, and great lakes salmon charters are abundant......
    Charter boats allow the masses access to the fish that the commercial industry once had near exclusive use of.

    It's competition for the resource.

  3. #3

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    I think much of the hatred for charters come because many of the charter capt/operators are non-residents who come up and kill fish/make money and leave.

    I believe they are called "Charter Nazi's" in Sitka...

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by 270ti View Post
    I think much of the hatred for charters come because many of the charter capt/operators are non-residents who come up and kill fish/make money and leave. ...
    So how is that different from commercial or sport fishermen, for that matter?

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    Member pike_palace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    So how is that different from commercial or sport fishermen, for that matter?
    They are non residents. It just dosen't sit well with some people.
    "Ya can't stop a bad guy with a middle finger and a bag of quarters!!!!"- Ted Nugent.

  6. #6

    Default Combat Tourism

    How bad is this attitude toward the tourists? Is it confined to Sitka and the Southeast or is this something that someone coming up to fish would have to deal with wherever they went?
    This whole subject puts a twist on my plans for a "trip of a fishing lifetime" next year. I have been planning this trip for years and would be disappointed if this type of issue could derail the enjoyment of visiting and fishing in such an extraordinary place
    Last edited by marsworth; 07-03-2008 at 05:30. Reason: unfinished

  7. #7

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    Marsworth

    My wife and I took our "trip of a liftetime" 2 years ago. We loved it so much we returned last year and will be returning this year as well. We have never had a problem with anyone we met. For the most part we have recieved tips and advice from numerous people we have had the good fortune to share a section of water with. Thanks to several hours fishing next to a local resident over a 2 day period, I bought a flyrod and will be using it for the first time this year. I have seen tourists take a lot of abuse in some cases. Violating game laws and trying to play dumb about it is the most common way to feel someones wrath. I guess my experiences could be summed up as " If you don't want to be treated like an ignorant tourist don't act like one". Enjoy your trip and I hope it exceeds your expectations as much as ours did.

  8. #8
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    Default Not toward tourists

    Quote Originally Posted by marsworth View Post
    How bad is this attitude toward the tourists? Is it confined to Sitka and the Southeast or is this something that someone coming up to fish would have to deal with wherever they went?
    This whole subject puts a twist on my plans for a "trip of a fishing lifetime" next year. I have been planning this trip for years and would be disappointed if this type of issue could derail the enjoyment of visiting and fishing in such an extraordinary place
    Don't let these guys comments deture you from your once in a lifetime trip. Personally i have never seen a hatred pointed at tourists in alaska. The only thing i have ever witnessed is the competition between locals and guides in a situation where a guide thinks he owns an area. But from what i have seen this seems to be more confined to rivers where the good areas to fish are much smaller. Unfortunetly the clients get caught in the middle of the situation. But don't ever think these confrontations ever pointed toward the clients. I don't believe i am the only one with the opinion that local charter business is great for alaska, and i love to see lots of business for the local charters. Its just plain good for the state.

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    like what was said before, the hatred wasnt for the tourists, but for the captains, and deckhands. yep, charter nazis sound about right.

    i think i understand it now, seeing that the whole town of sitka is running on fishing to keep everyone employed.

  10. #10
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    It's the nature of the beast. We humans are territorial and competitive by nature.
    However I've never experienced the above mentioned "Hatred," but not to say it isn't there.
    As far as "non-resident captains/operators," just be fortunate that your year-round weather prevents most from being permanent.
    I could only wish I had that problem. As I own my own concrete and general contracting business, I evermore find that my competition is either unlicensed, and or they hire illegals from south of the border. But that problem will never go away. It's just a fact of life that we unfortunately have to live with.

    I too love AK and will continue my annual trips up there as often as possible. We had done the charters in the past, but we usually rent a boat and self-guide. To me it's allot more fun and adventurous. Besides the fish limits are better. And we've found that local info is rather easy and friendly to gather. We'll be there next week!!!

  11. #11

    Default To carry this a bit further....

    There are also two types of tourists: The first type gets on this forum, and sincerely inquires about the 'local' way of doing things. This type of 'tourist' is generally warmly received.
    The second type of tourist, is the one that arrives on the cruise ship, and runs around in their yellow nautica jacket, generally acting ignorant to 'locals'...these are the ones that pull an emergency stop on the seward hwy, blocking traffic, and running across traffic in their rental car/honkin rv to stop and see the goats....

    The second type are generally not well received, and pretty much 'burn the corks' of residents.

    Maybe that helps differentiate the two?

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    Member DRIFTER_016's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by akseakayaker View Post
    There are also two types of tourists: The first type gets on this forum, and sincerely inquires about the 'local' way of doing things. This type of 'tourist' is generally warmly received.
    The second type of tourist, is the one that arrives on the cruise ship, and runs around in their yellow nautica jacket, generally acting ignorant to 'locals'...these are the ones that pull an emergency stop on the seward hwy, blocking traffic, and running across traffic in their rental car/honkin rv to stop and see the goats....

    The second type are generally not well received, and pretty much 'burn the corks' of residents.

    And hated by us first kind of tourist too!!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by akseakayaker View Post
    these are the ones that pull an emergency stop on the seward hwy, blocking traffic, and running across traffic in their rental car/honkin rv to stop and see the goats....
    Hey, I do that ....








    Sometimes

  14. #14
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    Default This paints a memory for me...

    Quote Originally Posted by akseakayaker View Post
    ...the one that arrives on the cruise ship, and runs around in their yellow nautica jacket, generally acting ignorant to 'locals'...these are the ones that pull an emergency stop on the seward hwy, blocking traffic, and running across traffic in their rental car/honkin rv to stop and see the goats....

    The second type are generally not well received, and pretty much 'burn the corks' of residents...
    This is funny. I had this happen to me where a tourist stopped in the middle of the dang Sterling Hwy, just north of the Russian River Ferry and less than 150 feet from an empty pullout to look at the bears in the river. I managed to stop in time, but the guy behind me smacked our boat. Then the guy (tourist) pulled in to the pull out, grabbed his camera... as did I but without the camera, and we exchanged "unpleasantry's..." Let's just say that guy probably won't look at locals the same. I wonder if he'll wear his yellow Nautica again??? I probably would have been a little more calm about it if my wife wasn't pregnant and in the car.

    USE THE PULLOUTS TO STOP!!! NOT THE MIDDLE OF A 2-LANE ROAD!!!

    I think tourists are good. Idiots and jackasses are bad...and that is the same anywhere in the world.

    I don't see how out of state charter guys are all that bad. They're obviously filling a void left open by unwilling locals...not any different than Texas "slopers." It's just capitalism at work. At least the charter guys spend money while they're here.

  15. #15

    Angry Charter fishing, tourist fishing ... all impact us!

    I just wrote in about a gentleman that was upset about all the tourists to his area. Yeah, me too! However, it isn't just the tourists that upsets me it's the general feeling that we're selling Alaska out! We need the tourism as it's obvious that our economy needs it but do we need so many non-residents making a killing in our state and taking their money back home to spend it? With other states closing their salmon fishing to all but sportfishing are these same fishing boats going to end up in our waters taking our fish? I believe its a worrying question that really needs to be answered. I have a son living on the coast of Oregon that says that most charter boat businesses want to come up here to make their living then go home in the fall. What bullcrap is that? They outfished their own areas, now they want to do the same to ours, I think not! Then, another pet peeve! Why not limit the number of salmon for out-of-staters (tourists)? I have been trying to find something in the rules & regs that tell me how many (max.) can tourists either ship home or take home in a freezer. Todate I can't find anything on it. Help anyone? I see people each weekend that are shipping home their loot, makes me absolutely furious! Why can't they act like sportsmen and only take what they need? They sure as hell can't eat 500 lbs. of fish a year. This is our industry, our home and our sportsfishing. Let's keep it our folks!

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    Default Summer 09

    Marsworth,

    I don't think this issue will blemish your trip in any way. Enjoy the planning process and we ( I'll speak for the whole state) look forward to your visit in 09.

    Coaldust

    Quote Originally Posted by marsworth View Post
    How bad is this attitude toward the tourists? Is it confined to Sitka and the Southeast or is this something that someone coming up to fish would have to deal with wherever they went?
    This whole subject puts a twist on my plans for a "trip of a fishing lifetime" next year. I have been planning this trip for years and would be disappointed if this type of issue could derail the enjoyment of visiting and fishing in such an extraordinary place

  17. #17
    Member AK Tubes's Avatar
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    Default There is a limit

    There are daily and possession limits on fish. If a tourist is here long enough to have 500# of meat to take home, then they are going to be here, SPENDING MONEY, for a long time.

    I don't think we should pave the state, I like it wild, but the reality is that the tourists keep towns like Seward and Soldotna alive and these towns need to cater to what the consumer wants. In today's lazy society, that means convenience and creature comforts. It's sad but true.

    Would I like to see more residents get the benefit of this extra economic simulus? ABSOLUTELY! But the reality is that the reason that there are non-residents running charters and other businesses is because there is room in the market.

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    Default Our home

    Right on Jlady!

    I'm sure that a few members will disagree, but like you say, I see thousands of lbs of fish boxes headed south and I speculate much of it will be freezer burnt and thrown away. What is the little ol'e soccer mom from Iowa going to do with 200lbs of halibut that her husband and herself just caught? They grew up on beef and she probably doesn't like fish anyways because all she ever had was the muddy catfish slop her dad fed her as a kid. She doesn't know how to cook it or prepare Alaska seafood. After a couple of mishaps, the rest of the Alaska fish is going to the garbage can. What a waste. I hear charter clients brag about how much fish they still have in the freezer from the previous year.

    Coaldust

    Quote Originally Posted by jlady View Post
    I just wrote in about a gentleman that was upset about all the tourists to his area. Yeah, me too! However, it isn't just the tourists that upsets me it's the general feeling that we're selling Alaska out! We need the tourism as it's obvious that our economy needs it but do we need so many non-residents making a killing in our state and taking their money back home to spend it? With other states closing their salmon fishing to all but sportfishing are these same fishing boats going to end up in our waters taking our fish? I believe its a worrying question that really needs to be answered. I have a son living on the coast of Oregon that says that most charter boat businesses want to come up here to make their living then go home in the fall. What bullcrap is that? They outfished their own areas, now they want to do the same to ours, I think not! Then, another pet peeve! Why not limit the number of salmon for out-of-staters (tourists)? I have been trying to find something in the rules & regs that tell me how many (max.) can tourists either ship home or take home in a freezer. Todate I can't find anything on it. Help anyone? I see people each weekend that are shipping home their loot, makes me absolutely furious! Why can't they act like sportsmen and only take what they need? They sure as hell can't eat 500 lbs. of fish a year. This is our industry, our home and our sportsfishing. Let's keep it our folks!

  19. #19

    Default

    Not sure if you can say flat out there is a large hate for the charter guys. Most of them are great hardworking folks trying to make a living. I have learned a lot from them and enjoy the conversations with them. Of the guided trips I have done most of them were outstanding and the skipper worked very hard for us. I do wish that in order to commercial fish or guide, either hunting or fishing it should be required that they are a resident of Alaska. Get on your local state reps and force them to push a law thru.

    I don't mind the folks coming up here for a fishing trip of a lifetime. I usually find these folks are hard core fisherman and generally are outstanding fisherman. I much rather fish with them than a drunk foul mouth local who has no respect for our natural resource. I know it can be a big pain fishing next to someone that is fishing for the first time in there life. Been there. Only thing to do is to move or if they are willing help them. My son and I helped a gentlemen out this last weekend and he landed a 50+ fish within an hour. Fish of a lifetime for him. He couldn't thank us enough. I almost get as much enjoyment out of that as I do catching.

    Tourism is here to stay and is a vital to the economy of Alaska. Yes, I would love for things to be the way they were 20 years ago as most of us locals would. It's not going to happen. Probably the native Alaskans would like for all of us to leave also. Pretty much can assume that we ruined their home. Alaska is still better than any other place I have ever been.

    Saw a post last night on someone jumping on Doc about being an out of state and coming up here and fishing all the time and pretty much to quit posting on here. I would much rather have Doc fishing next to me than anyone else. He could teach us all a thing or two. He has more respect for our fishing resources than 99% of the folks that live here. Doc, your welcome at my house anytime.

  20. #20
    Member Hammer Hog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coaldust View Post
    Right on Jlady!

    I'm sure that a few members will disagree, but like you say, I see thousands of lbs of fish boxes headed south and I speculate much of it will be freezer burnt and thrown away. What is the little ol'e soccer mom from Iowa going to do with 200lbs of halibut that her husband and herself just caught? They grew up on beef and she probably doesn't like fish anyways because all she ever had was the muddy catfish slop her dad fed her as a kid. She doesn't know how to cook it or prepare Alaska seafood. After a couple of mishaps, the rest of the Alaska fish is going to the garbage can. What a waste. I hear charter clients brag about how much fish they still have in the freezer from the previous year.

    Coaldust

    Quote Originally Posted by jlady View Post
    ...we're selling Alaska out! We need the tourism as it's obvious that our economy needs it but do we need so many non-residents making a killing in our state and taking their money back home to spend it? With other states closing their salmon fishing to all but sportfishing are these same fishing boats going to end up in our waters taking our fish? I believe its a worrying question that really needs to be answered. I have a son living on the coast of Oregon that says that most charter boat businesses want to come up here to make their living then go home in the fall. What bullcrap is that? They outfished their own areas, now they want to do the same to ours, I think not! Then, another pet peeve! Why not limit the number of salmon for out-of-staters (tourists)? I have been trying to find something in the rules & regs that tell me how many (max.) can tourists either ship home or take home in a freezer. Todate I can't find anything on it. Help anyone? I see people each weekend that are shipping home their loot, makes me absolutely furious! Why can't they act like sportsmen and only take what they need? They sure as hell can't eat 500 lbs. of fish a year. This is our industry, our home and our sportsfishing. Let's keep it our folks!

    That's got to be the funniest, most pathetic, lame, and selfish pair of statements I've ever read on this forum.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe that logistically speaking, AK has so much open water, that all the little coastal towns combined total a very minimal amount of that open water. And with the ADF&G, all those waters will be managed for the good, for all...hopefully.
    I'd be more concerned with the commercial fishers way before I point fingers to the sport fisher.

    And as for me, I not only stuff my freezers full of fish, I also give a large percentage of it to my friends and family. It all gets eaten...all 500 POUNDS of it...not to mention all the tuna I get from down south. If it was just for the "SPORT," I catch and release. Otherwise, it's eaten!


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