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Thread: 348-450 Ackely

  1. #1

    Default 348-450 Ackely

    Does anyone have any reloading information on P.O. Ackelys .348-.450 cartridge?

    None of my reloading books list it other than a 1972 "Gun Cartrigde Guide" book and it list only two load.

    Thanks

    canemaker

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    I'm building a .450 Ackley as we speak. I haven't started reloading for it yet, but I had Superior Ammo load up some ammo for it until I get set up to load it. I will chronograph them, but Larry at Superior said the 550 grain Woodleighs (softs and solids) should go around 2,200 fps.......

    Accurate Reloading (www.accuratereloading.com) has several loads for the .450 Ackley in their reloading pages -- you might want to take a look.

    Here's a photo of the .450 and a .458 Lott (the Ackley is on the right!):


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    Default Two different cases...

    I think of the 348-450 Ackley as the 348 Winchester case (as In Win Model 71) and it is full length and improved with a 40 degree shoulder. (Typical Ackley) This is different form the 450 Alaskan of Johnson/Fuller fame. I think also there is a 348 case full length necked to 450 but not improved.

    However, the 450 Ackley that Whitworth posted about it another kettle of fish. It is the full length H&H belted case necked up to accept .458" bullets and is Ackley improved with a very slight shoulder. I have own and loaded for all of these except the 450-348 full length unimproved version.


    I do like the 450 Ackley for a rip snorter of buffalo rifle but haven't taken anything of note with the 450 Alaskan or 450/348 Ackley.

    Also a point of note in regard to wildcats.

    In this country if we neck up a 30-06 case to .338 we call it the 338-06 or the 338/06. The new bore size first and the parent case last. Likewise if we neck up a 348 Win case to 450 we call it the 450-348 and in this case (I guess) it would be called the 450-348 Ackley (meaning that it is an improved case and has an Ackley 40 degree shoulder).

    Is this the cartridge you are trying to load for? The full length 348 Winchester case necked up to accept .458" bullets with very little taper and a 40 degree shoulder? If so I may be able to help.

    Look at the data for the 45-70 as loaded for strong Ruger/Marlin rifles.
    Powders to use will be RL-7, H322, RL-12 if you have some, Varget for heavy bullets. Just start with the 45-70 data and add powder 'til the chrony says enough. 400 grains at about 2000 is all you'll want.

    What ballistic level are you loading to we need to know that first and also is this in an M71?
    Last edited by Murphy; 07-20-2008 at 23:09. Reason: I really screwed this up
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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    A handsome round you have there. Are you making from belted basic brass? I have some headstamped brass for the 450 Ackley and it is also easy to make from 416 Remington cases. I also have some Hornady belted basic but it is not annealled and I'm waiting on my crayons to heat and dunk. Did you anneal the 450 on the left? I guess that technically is the 450 Watts, the full length case, the Lott is shortened slightly and the Ackley is expanded with a shoulder. I also do some loading for the 470 Capstick the belted basic straight to accept the 570 grain .475" Woodleighs. I think the Ackley I loaded with the 500 Woodleighs was at 2350.



    Quote Originally Posted by Whitworth View Post
    I'm building a .450 Ackley as we speak. I haven't started reloading for it yet, but I had Superior Ammo load up some ammo for it until I get set up to load it. I will chronograph them, but Larry at Superior said the 550 grain Woodleighs (softs and solids) should go around 2,200 fps.......

    Accurate Reloading (www.accuratereloading.com) has several loads for the .450 Ackley in their reloading pages -- you might want to take a look.

    Here's a photo of the .450 and a .458 Lott (the Ackley is on the right!):

    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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    Yes Murphy it is made from basic belted brass -- no head stamp. The Lott on the left is a factory Hornady round. I didn't load for the Ackley but will as soon as I finish it. The .450 Actually is a parallel case which accounts for must of the additional capacity -- that and it's full 2.85 length (if I can recall!). I can't wait to get this thing done! I had a Lott but wanted to build something just a touch different. I must have misunderstood the original poster as I thought he was asking about a couple of different rounds, including the .450 Ackley! Did you have an Ackley, Murphy?

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    I see it is a little shorter, must be a Lott.

    No I don't have an Ackley anymore. I had a A-Square rifle made on a P-17 action made originally by Winchester. It was a very nice rifle and shot like a varmint gun. I bought it used (three rounds) and shot it alot, took it hunting and it does the trick in spades. That extra velocity makes it hit a little harder. A-Square still does make the headstamped brass if you ever want some of that, I have a couple of boxes of it.

    What are you using for dies? Mine are Redding, I got a set of RCBS with my rifle but let them go with the gun when I sold it. I bought these later to load for a couple of guys I know who have 450's. It is a fun gun to shoot, what action is yours built on?
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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    I haven't bought the dies yet, but will have to soon if I plan to ever shoot it! It is being built on a Mark X that was a .458 win mag. I need a new stock as well because it broke at the wrist the last outing at the range.........

    I would actually like to get some headstamped brass for it -- it makes it feel less like a wildcat -- to me at least! I have a fair collection of brass, do you need anything and would you want to work up a trade? I'll understand if you don't!

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    I think of the 348-450 Ackley as the 348 Winchester case (as In Win Model 71) and it is full length and improved with a 40 degree shoulder. (Typical Ackley) This is different form the 450 Alaskan of Johnson/Fuller fame. I think also there is a 348 case full length necked to 450 but not improved.

    In this country if we neck up a 30-06 case to .338 we call it the 338-06 or the 338/06. The new bore size first and the parent case last. Likewise if we neck up a 348 Win case to 450 we call it the 348-450 and in this case (I guess) it would be called the 348-450 Ackley (meaning that it is an improved case and has an Ackley 40 degree shoulder).

    Is this the cartridge you are trying to load for? The full length 348 Winchester case necked up to accept .458" bullets with very little taper and a 40 degree shoulder? If so I may be able to help.

    Look at the data for the 45-70 as loaded for strong Ruger/Marlin rifles.
    Powders to use will be RL-7, H322, RL-12 if you have some, Varget for heavy bullets. Just start with the 45-70 data and add powder 'til the chrony says enough. 400 grains at about 2000 is all you'll want.

    What ballistic level are you loading to we need to know that first and also is this in an M71?


    Sir...Murphy,

    This is the exact cartridge I am seeking info about. You are quite correct in what you stated about the nomenclature and cartridge designations. Actually after going back and researching my original source, I found that P.O. Ackely did indeed refer to it as 450-348 Ackely. So, I stand corrected. However since it is fire-formed to increase the shoulder and an "improved" case, I can be "on the fence" with this one..(lol) Also I remember reading some where that a Johnson fellow in Coopers Landing?? developed a similar cartridge that omitted the fire-forming. Would this be a "better" cartridge?

    And yes, it's for a model 71 Winchester.

    The loads that I have found list a 400 gn bullet pushed by 65grs of 3031 for a muzzle velocity of 2260fps and a 500 grain bullet pushed by 60grs of 3031 for a muzzle velocity of 2000fps. The energy listed is 4550 and 4450 respectively.

    Any known or published loading material will be of great benefit to me.

    Thanks,
    canemaker

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    Sorry for the thread hijack, canemaker! I misunderstood you!

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitworth View Post
    Sorry for the thread hijack, canemaker! I misunderstood you!

    No problem at all, I promise.... I really like your .450 Ackely, it is a "handsome" round to quote Murphy....

    Would like to have it in Zimbabwe or Mozambique with a 49" Cape Buffalo down range... It would be just the ticket...

    What type of rifle are you building to accomodate that round?

    canemaker

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    It's a Mark X that started life as a .458 win mag. It's doing time in gunsmith prison right now! Plus, I need to get a new stock for it.

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    If you can lay hands on a copy of "The Winchester Lever Legacy" by Clyde (Snooky) Williamson, he had some load info for your 450-348 71.

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