Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 48

Thread: More great news!

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    welfare state of Alaska
    Posts
    5,153

    Default More great news!

    The grand jury turned Joe Horn loose today, refusing to prosecute him for shooting and killing the 2 illegal aliens that had burgularized his neighbors home in Pasadena, TX. http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...n/5864151.html

    Joe called 911 to report the crime then confronted the buglars with his shotgun after telling the 911 operator he couldn't just stand by and do nothing.

    One of the illegal aliens had a previous felony drug conviction and had been deported. Neither had obviously had any repect for the laws of our country and were not too bright - they ran when Joe raised his shotgun and told them to stop.

    The worse trajedy is that poor Joe says feels badly about about rehabiliting these two criminals. Perhaps even worse is the fact that a lot of people think he shouldn't have gotten involved.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

  2. #2
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    4,431

    Default

    WoW! I had not read that account before. That was bold on his part and probably only in Texas could we do that. I admire his gumption and I am glad he was not indicted but I'd have some qualms about doing that my self. I would like to have him for a neighbor though, what a great house sitter.

    It should send a very strong message to any and all ne'er do wells who would prey on the person or possesions of others.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Missoula, MT
    Posts
    448

    Default

    I agree with Murphy but not sure we can assume this will work in the other 49 states. It is a good ending though , from my view. J.

  4. #4
    Member Kay9Cop's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Wasilla, AK
    Posts
    789

    Default

    I'm glad the law found in his favor, but agree with the others that this might not fly in other places. Before responding to a similar situation in Alaska I would recommend taking a concealed carry course. Most CCW courses will cover the legalities of using your weapon to defend yourself. Joe probably won't be affected by this, but in some cases you may not be found criminally liable and still end up paying for defending yourself through civil liability.
    "Beware the man with only one gun; he may know how to use it."

  5. #5
    Member 8x57 Mauser's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Southeast Alaska
    Posts
    513

    Default

    I wasn't on the grand jury, and I don't have all the facts.

    But I get awful nervous about people getting shot in the back in self defense.

    There's no doubt an element I don't understand, but I've never seen anybody run/walk/charge backwards with intent to do harm.

  6. #6
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    4,431

    Default

    Texas law does allow you to use deadly force to stop people from fleeing with you worldly possesions. We can choose to agree or not agree with that) The difficulty here was that this was the neighbors possesions. There is no guarantee that the next grand jury will find accordingly, and one can only guess about any impending lawsuits in favor of these criminals who were not even citizens of this country.

    What is the alternative here. We allow any one from another country to come into this country illegally and carry off all we have worked for all our lives? What's next our first born child? I think a line has been appropriately drawn.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



  7. #7
    Member 8x57 Mauser's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Southeast Alaska
    Posts
    513

    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    ...
    What is the alternative here. We allow any one from another country to come into this country illegally and carry off all we have worked for all our lives? What's next our first born child? ...
    You're not really suggesting the shooter knew the burglars' citizenship status when he pulled the trigger, are you?

    Separate from whether a person thinks property - not children - is worth a human life (even a scumbag's life), the immigration status of a burglar doesn't matter one whit.

    I've got to trust that the men and women on that grand jury didn't consider it. For the sake of their souls, I pray they didn't consider it.

  8. #8

    Default still comes out the same

    The fact of the matter is that they WERE illegal aliens, whether he knew it or not. As for the sake of his soul, that is not us to us to judge. But as has been stated, shooting fleeing perps is a definite no-no most places.

  9. #9
    Member AKDoug's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Talkeetna
    Posts
    5,714

    Default

    Too bad Ramos and Compean didn't get the same treatment in Texas..

  10. #10
    Mark
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 8x57 Mauser View Post
    .....Separate from whether a person thinks property - not children - is worth a human life (even a scumbag's life), the immigration status of a burglar doesn't matter one whit....
    Why not? They're breaking the law merely being here. It's yet another crime in addition to burglary.

    ....I've got to trust that the men and women on that grand jury didn't consider it. For the sake of their souls, I pray they didn't consider it.
    I would. Just like I'd consider it differently if somebody was shoplifting a bag of groceries is different than shoplifting a six pack of beer or an electronic toy.

  11. #11

    Default More Details

    Before anyone gets overly worked up for the guys he shot...understand that this was texas, where not ONLY can you protect yourself and your property with deadly force, you can also protect your neighbor's property. I understand that's a pretty risky undertaking, but Joe knew these guys weren't his neighbors, was on the line with 911 for over 6 minutes i believe before doing anything....shortly after this happened, a texas senator was on glenn beck and said Joe acted within texas law to do what he did.

    both of these guys had been convited of crimes in the USA previously, and both had been deported....both were back and back to doing crime.

    i'm not saying what he did is advisable for all of us, especially since we don't live in texas and our laws don't protect us in situations like that. godd on joe though, for putting a stop to 2 career criminals' activity in his neighborhood.

  12. #12
    Member 8x57 Mauser's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Southeast Alaska
    Posts
    513

    Default

    The reason why not, Mark, is that the shooter could not possibly have known their immigration status when he pulled the trigger. The question of whether he used deadly force justifiably has nothing at all to do with whether they were in the country legally, or drove without a license, or ate broccoli for lunch.

    And the argument that the difference between killing illegal immigrant criminals vs. American-born criminals when the shooter couldn't have known their citizenship status is somehow like the difference between shoplifting necessities of life vs. a toy makes no sense.

    The only question before the grand jury was whether the shooter acted justifiably in defense of life and (in Texas, anyway) property. I pray they made their decision on that basis.

    If they gave a man who couldn't have known the criminals' citizenship status a pass because the criminals were illegal immigrants, they made their call based on something unrelated to the taking of two human lives.

  13. #13

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 8x57 Mauser View Post
    The reason why not, Mark, is that the shooter could not possibly have known their immigration status when he pulled the trigger. The question of whether he used deadly force justifiably has nothing at all to do with whether they were in the country legally, or drove without a license, or ate broccoli for lunch.

    And the argument that the difference between killing illegal immigrant criminals vs. American-born criminals when the shooter couldn't have known their citizenship status is somehow like the difference between shoplifting necessities of life vs. a toy makes no sense.

    The only question before the grand jury was whether the shooter acted justifiably in defense of life and (in Texas, anyway) property. I pray they made their decision on that basis.

    If they gave a man who couldn't have known the criminals' citizenship status a pass because the criminals were illegal immigrants, they made their call based on something unrelated to the taking of two human lives.
    Well said...

  14. #14

    Default

    The only question before the grand jury was whether the shooter acted justifiably in defense of life and (in Texas, anyway) property.
    period....

  15. #15
    Mark
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mdhunter View Post
    ...understand that this was texas, where not ONLY can you protect yourself and your property with deadly force, you can also protect your neighbor's property.....
    I guess that puts additional meaning to the saying, "Don't mess with Texas"......

  16. #16
    Mark
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 8x57 Mauser View Post
    The reason why not, Mark, is that the shooter could not possibly have known their immigration status when he pulled the trigger....
    But the grand jury could. That is what you remarked on, wasn't it?:

    .....Separate from whether a person thinks property - not children - is worth a human life (even a scumbag's life), the immigration status of a burglar doesn't matter one whit.

    I've got to trust that the men and women on that grand jury didn't consider it. For the sake of their souls, I pray they didn't consider it.....
    Again, I would.

    ....The question of whether he used deadly force justifiably has nothing at all to do with whether they were in the country legally, or drove without a license, or ate broccoli for lunch.....
    The broccoli isn't a factor, the driving without a license is a factor to me, and being in the country legally or not certainly is a factor in a grand jury proceeding (that is, if I'm in that grand jury).

    ....And the argument that the difference between killing illegal immigrant criminals vs. American-born criminals when the shooter couldn't have known their citizenship status is somehow like the difference between shoplifting necessities of life vs. a toy makes no sense....
    I guess you don't ever want to see me on a grand jury, because it makes a difference to me, and I vote as I see fit. The way I see it, if the criminals hadn't invaded the country illegally again, they wouldn't have gotten all shot up by Joe.

    ....The only question before the grand jury was whether the shooter acted justifiably in defense of life and (in Texas, anyway) property....
    Sorry. A grand jury can ask all manner of questions that they'd like, and when I serve on a grand jury, I ask questions like you wouldn't believe.

    .....If they gave a man who couldn't have known the criminals' citizenship status a pass because the criminals were illegal immigrants, they made their call based on something unrelated to the taking of two human lives.
    And that's exactly what I would have done.

    The life of a criminal can be tough, and I'd like to see it get a lot tougher.

  17. #17
    Member 8x57 Mauser's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Southeast Alaska
    Posts
    513

    Default

    I don't want to belabor the point, Mark, but under your rules, a person who deliberately fired a random shot into an airport crowd and killed only an illegal immigrant -- or killed only a person who drove without a license to reach the terminal -- shouldn't be prosecuted.

    If a human life matters less than the driving law or the border crossing law, that's a reasonable regime. But it doesn't mesh with my values or American justice.

  18. #18
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Southwest Alaska
    Posts
    2,145

    Default

    I wish we had that ability here, to use deadly force to protect our property.
    Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Albert Einstein

    Better living through chemistry (I'm a chemist)

    You can piddle with the puppies, or run with the wolves...

  19. #19
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Kodiak
    Posts
    552

    Default

    We may have a few less illegals trying to get in if that was the case though.

  20. #20
    Member 8x57 Mauser's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Southeast Alaska
    Posts
    513

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitroman View Post
    I wish we had that ability here, to use deadly force to protect our property.
    Stuff isn't worth a human life. Not even a scumbag's life.

    If a bear is a threat to my property, I'd have no moral problem shooting it. But human beings are another story. Even lousy human beings.

    You don't kill them over stuff.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •