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Thread: Sheep Rifle Possibilities

  1. #1

    Default Sheep Rifle Possibilities

    I was at a gunshop this weekend and noticed that they had some original Ultra Light Arms rifles that they had purchased from an estate. The price was decent but the calibers weren't. They were extremely short action.

    One of the guys of interest was a 222 with a lilja barrel. I thought about it for next's years project. Wouldn't it be cool to have a sheep rifle that weighed all of 4lbs and 12oz or 5lbs 4oz with 4x m8 compact and ultralight conetrol rings?

    The Triple Deuce or 222 Remington is not a sheep caliber. However, I thought of the possibilities with the tiny action and rifle.
    1) 25-222 copperhead- Made by John Wooters. Almost qualifies as sheep rifle but it is a wildcat.
    2)257 Kimber- A little bit better than the copperhead for velocities but its not as classic.
    3) 6.5 Grendel- Highly touted and it is a cult favorite amongst Tactical cognesti.
    4) 6.8 SPC- Less ballistically adept then 6.5 Grendel but it is more readily available in factory form. 110 TTSX Barnes bullet might make a good sheep choice out to 250 yards. However, you might have to have some gunsmithing or something else done to the bolt.

    I am just wondering what you folks think?

    Sincerely,

    Thomas

  2. #2
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    I don't think it's that hard to find dies for a 6mm x 223, and that would certainly do the job out to 200 yards or so. Probably farther.

  3. #3
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    That sounds like a great idea, except that I like to have a rifle chambered for a larger caliber that can shoot heavier grain bullets in case I encounter a bear. I hunt sheep with a 300Wby.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vek View Post
    I don't think it's that hard to find dies for a 6mm x 223, and that would certainly do the job out to 200 yards or so. Probably farther.
    I've sure whacked a lot of deer with both the 6mmTCU and the 7mmTCU and have collected some insights that might be useful. I doubt a few extra inches of barrel on a sheep rifle will add enough velocity over a 14" Contender barrel to be meaningful, so I suspect the bigger question is how well my terminal ballistics experience with deer applies to the facts of life with sheep.

    Based on that, I'll say flat out that the 6mmTCU is going to be a very marginal performer on sheep, may the late Bob Hagel still rest in peace. On his reco's I used one a lot and tried a whole bunch of different bullets in it. Even light rifle bullets fail to open reliably as you get out toward 200 yards, while the special "single shot handgun" bullets from Sierra are darned fragile inside 100 yards.

    The 7mm TCU with lightly built 120-130 grain bullets is much more capable, even if the bullets don't open. And much past 100 yards, your chances of failure to expand go way up. I whacked one deer at about 150 yards with a 130 grain rifle bullet if I recall correctly, and it gave absolutely no sign of a hit. Just kept on walking and out of sight. I went ahead and crossed the canyon to check for evidence, because I couldn't believe I had missed the rested broadside shot. I found nothing where it had been standing, but after following it for about 40 yards I found one tiny little spot of blood. A hundred yards further I found the deer bedded down like it was sleeping, but stone dead. Autopsy showed absolutely no expansion anywhere along the bullet course through both lungs and out the far side .

    The 7mm Sierra Single Shot Handgun bullets share the same short range deficiencies as their 6mm bullets, but at least they'll expand reliably on deer to at least 250-260 yards, the farthest I've shot deer with them.

    In between you have your choice between 25 cal and 6.5mm bullets. I'm leery of either simply because of the probability that available rifle bullets will be too tough at such low velocities and there are no handgun bullets available.

    Draw your own conclusions about how much that all applies to sheep. But if it was me doing the building and the hunting, I'd go with the 7mm TCU or some other 7mm variation on that parent case, then develop my loads around the Sierra Single Shot Pistol Bullet. I'd also plan on doing a whale of a lot of expansion testing at longer ranges just to determine for myself the range limits for expansion. I have no doubt the gun would be a tack driver. But hitting a sheep can be a very different thing than killing quickly with this round. What happens if that trophy of a lifetime steps out of sight after the shot and walks a couple of hundred yards like my deer? What are the chances it's going to end up at the bottom of a cliff or chute?

  5. #5
    Member Matt's Avatar
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    What was the asking price for the Kimber 257 Roberts?

  6. #6
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    I'm interested in number #1. and #3. Is this guy locale to Alaska?

    In answer to your question the .257 Roberts is all the ctg you need for sheep.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tryants." (Thomas Jefferson

  7. #7

    Default 257 Kimber

    This is a wildcat caliber that is based on the 222 Remington.
    The 222 Remington is a miniature 30/06 case. and when it is necked up to 257 it is a miniature version of the 35 Whelen.

    It was developed by Kimber during their first incarnation as a company.
    It can propel a 100 grain Speer bullet at 2700 fps. This is right up their with the 257 Roberts. However the 257 Kimber is a wildcat.


    The Three ULAs in question are a 22lr, and two model 20s.
    Model 20's are really super short actions like a mini-mauser action.

    They are lighter than other ULAs.

    The 6.8 SPC was developed as an alternative to the 223. It delivers about 2700 fps with 110 grain bullet which would be less than powerful but the new TTSX bullets make you wonder. It could be a really tiny gun.

    Many say the grendel 6.5 is better when it comes to velocity but the fact that the 6.8 can use 270 caliber bullets and is more popularly loaded is a bonus.

    This is pretty academic right now as I probably will hunt with 300 WBY or Winch mag in Mark V or Vanguard. I like both Wby has deluxe stock and if it is raining really hard down there then I will take the BC stocked 300 Winchester Mag. Either are very accurate for good distances.

    However, one of the ways that you can learn is to figure out a new paradigm.

    I will look into the TCUs because they might be interesting as well.

    Thanks everybody,

    Thomas

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by kaboku68 View Post

    I will look into the TCUs because they might be interesting as well.

    Thomas
    A big advantage of the TCU's is cost of dies and reamers for a custom rifle build. They're standard calibers, so you won't be sucking up the cost of custom dies or reamers. That 7mm Sierra Single Shot Pistol bullet is a sincere game getter at TCU and similar velocities, so I'd have lots of faith in it for sheep.

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