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Thread: Why I Lean Toward Weatherby Rifles

  1. #1

    Default Why I Lean Toward Weatherby Rifles

    I own or have owned the following make of bolt action rifles and more than one in the following makes. Remington, Ruger, Savage, Interarms Mauser, Winchester, Sako, Tikka, Browning, Marlin, Howa, and Weahterby (Vanguard and Mark V). The reason that I lean in favor of the Weahterby Mark V has to do with how it is made, looks and feel.

    The Mark V action is made in the following way. The nine lugs are machined on a lathe. Those lugs are cut one row (3 lugs) at a time. Same with the lug seat in the receiver. They are done on a broach one row at a time. There is no way to get some of the lugs in one row or one lug in each row or whatever to NOT make contact. It is a all or nothing type of deal.


    The shear area of the Mark V is similar to two lug actions like M70 and Rem 700. I think it is slightly smaller than the Rem 700.

    However, bearing area is much larger. If all nine lugs are not touching they will be touching with a huge over load. Of course the same applies to two lug actions.

    To illustrate the issue of bearing area consider a two lug action like a Rem 700. Now imagine a slot equal to half the the length of the locking lug is machined out from the middle of each lug. That would make the Rem 700 a 4 lug action and in the process would double the bearing area but reduce the shear area.

    The amount of shear area has it limits for two reasons. Firstly, no matter how long the locking lug is the locking recesses will set limits. Secondly, even if the lugs were a foot long they would still compress and set back at the point where the lug bears.

    If you look at the breech of artillery and naval guns you will see that the lock up system is an interrupted thread and an interrupted thread is what a Mark V uses.

    So speaking of bearing area the 9 lug system - the bottom line is that there is more bearing area because there IS more bearing area...

    There is no comparison the Mark V is a stronger and better action period.

    Now just for a little extra - You need to multiply the base area of the lug where it is machined out of the bolt. This will give sheer area. If you find out the area you will find why the military uses this breach system instead of a 2 or 3 lug system. I dare any one to put any rifle or make through the same tests Roy Weatherby did while developing the Mark V. This is true testimony to the shear strength of it. If any one isn't aware of how he tested it, here it is. He jammed a bullet up in the barrel (several times of varying weights) then loaded a live round behind it and sent it down range. Did you get that, he sent the bullet and bullets down range. The Mark V took it and did not give.

    But more than anything it is like Ford, Chevy, or Dodge, I just like to shoot and hunt with a Mark V.
    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
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  2. #2

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    Did I mention I like and own a bunch of other rifles also I just happen to lean to Weateherby Did you ever write a paper for your English teach that you thought was really good and when you got that "F" and all that red ink the only fear you had as you were praying, was taking it home to be signed. Just thought I would let this thread have at least ONE response and then PRAY it dies REALLY FAST!!!
    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
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    THE HEART OF A CHILD
    THE HIDE OF A RHINOCEROS

  3. #3

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    Thanks for sharing why your rifle is *almost* as good as mine

  4. #4
    Member Big Al's Avatar
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    Friend beartooth. Out of curiosity how do you know that each of the nine lugs make contact? (I use the"friend" cause it tends to upset guys on another forum)

    Prior to "ROY WEATHERBY" Mark V action he used the same ctgs he designed in FN Mauser action and did not feel he was hurting the public with a poor design nor did he feel the Manufacture of the actions he bought them from were of poor quality. (Schultz&Larson) built the first of his actions, outside of his South gate shop. S&L was selling actions for ROY's .378 Wby to them at the time.

    "ROY began development of the Mark V in 1955 and it took he and the actual designer until 1961 to come to the point of actual patent (first Patent.) The second and final patent was issued in 1962. It took Fred Jennie the designer to work out most of the problems with "ROY" ideas that long to make a workable action by 1958.

    The idea for a multi lug rifle action, came from another action put on the market in 1914 by "CHARLES NEWTON" of the NEWTON RIFLE Co.

    While the gang at South gate were busy at work using investment casting from a foundry in San Francisco. J.P.Souer and Sohn were busy doing the same. As the costs from Germany got to high ROY went to HOWA in Japan and the action got better when the switch to forged actions and got away from their problems with the investment casting.

    The only disadvantage to the Mark V of significance is the vary poor camming action. The multi lug design has a direct effect on this problem.

    Yep, the Mark V is a strong action, but it is not because of the nine lug design. I don't think you could find an action designer living or dead that would ever tell you that nine lugs were better than two massive lugs were better than nine tiny lugs.

    Your reference to arty and the interrupted lugs has really little comparison to a rifle action. Take note of films you have seen of arty breeches opening and the empty case flying out of the breeches. No extractor, no ejectors here.. Faster opening and closing of the breech yes.

    Now this will probably cause cries of sacrilege I know and I'll probably smoke a toad in Hell for writing this, but here goes. "ROY WEATHERBY was a salesman first last and always. As a action designer, he weren't much!

    So the Salesman's claim of the,"strongest action in the world" could be open to more than just a little debate.

    What the heck, if it's what you like, "BE HAPPY IN YOUR WORK" if that reminds you of some obscure Japanese phrase, feel free to take it that way.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tryants." (Thomas Jefferson

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Al View Post
    Friend beartooth. Out of curiosity how do you know that each of the nine lugs make contact? (I use the"friend" cause it tends to upset guys on another forum)

    They all touch when the bolt is closing and that does not mean once it has that all 9 once closed are making contact maybe on 7 or so but when a high pressure load does go off they all will.

    Prior to "ROY WEATHERBY" Mark V action he used the same ctgs he designed in FN Mauser action and did not feel he was hurting the public with a poor design nor did he feel the Manufacture of the actions he bought them from were of poor quality. (Schultz&Larson) built the first of his actions, outside of his South gate shop. S&L was selling actions for ROY's .378 Wby to them at the time.

    "ROY began development of the Mark V in 1955 and it took he and the actual designer until 1961 to come to the point of actual patent (first Patent.) The second and final patent was issued in 1962. It took Fred Jennie the designer to work out most of the problems with "ROY" ideas that long to make a workable action by 1958.

    The idea for a multi lug rifle action, came from another action put on the market in 1914 by "CHARLES NEWTON" of the NEWTON RIFLE Co.

    While the gang at South gate were busy at work using investment casting from a foundry in San Francisco. J.P.Souer and Sohn were busy doing the same. As the costs from Germany got to high ROY went to HOWA in Japan and the action got better when the switch to forged actions and got away from their problems with the investment casting.

    The only disadvantage to the Mark V of significance is the vary poor camming action. The multi lug design has a direct effect on this problem.

    Yes, as with all designs there is a weakness of some kind.

    Yep, the Mark V is a strong action, but it is not because of the nine lug design. I don't think you could find an action designer living or dead that would ever tell you that nine lugs were better than two massive lugs were better than nine tiny lugs.

    Well first of all they are better when it comes to the actual bearing surface than a two lug and second that is good when pressures are extreme.

    Your reference to arty and the interrupted lugs has really little comparison to a rifle action. Take note of films you have seen of arty breeches opening and the empty case flying out of the breeches. No extractor, no ejectors here.. Faster opening and closing of the breech yes.

    Now this will probably cause cries of sacrilege I know and I'll probably smoke a toad in Hell for writing this, but here goes. "ROY WEATHERBY was a salesman first last and always. As a action designer, he weren't much!

    Well what you have said is not sacrilege, and yes he was a salesman, and that is why others designed it and I think it is an outstanding action but of course we both have our opinions. I know I could not change your mind nor would I try. I think you are aware of what you like and want in a rifle.

    So the Salesman's claim of the,"strongest action in the world" could be open to more than just a little debate.

    Could be but that does not change the over all fact that it can take the most punishment if a load exceeds extreme pressures. All actions as stated above do have certain inherent design weakness, none are excluded.

    What the heck, if it's what you like, "BE HAPPY IN YOUR WORK" if that reminds you of some obscure Japanese phrase, feel free to take it that way.

    Yes, I am very pragmatic and it does work for me, kinda like I said at the end of my post, " it is like Ford, Chevy or Dodge, what ever you like to drive.

    Last but not least you are effecting the out come of my prayer
    This could be a long process so for the sake of sanity and fun I will leave it with all who need something to engage.
    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
    THE MIND OF A SCHOLAR
    THE HEART OF A CHILD
    THE HIDE OF A RHINOCEROS

  6. #6

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    Forgot to mention we had some excitement last night late. Nancy and I were going to bed and she turned off the front lights and said, "Mike, it sure is bright out sided, come look." When I looked out the from door it reminded me of how bright it was in 1968 when they would shoot up flares in the army so we could see what was coming. So I went outside and look over and behind the house and low and behold the neighbors house was on fire. Our neighbors who live behind us were gone and their house caught on fire and had been burning for a while. They lost everything but had great insurance and no one was hurt.







    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
    THE MIND OF A SCHOLAR
    THE HEART OF A CHILD
    THE HIDE OF A RHINOCEROS

  7. #7
    Member Big Al's Avatar
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    Gald nobody was hurt in that one. Is there a better way to sell a house?
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tryants." (Thomas Jefferson

  8. #8

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    Beartooth, sorry to hear about your neighbor's loss. While it's wonderful no one got hurt, it's not going to be fun dealing with the insurance company now....

  9. #9
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    Gee...up until now I thought I liked you. But that crack about "Weatherby being stronger and better...." I might have to rethink that. Have you ever heard of the Mauser M98 action?

    There can only be One, and it is the m98, all others are just wannabe's. So THERE!
    Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Albert Einstein

    Better living through chemistry (I'm a chemist)

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  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitroman View Post
    Gee...up until now I thought I liked you. But that crack about "Weatherby being stronger and better...." I might have to rethink that. Have you ever heard of the Mauser M98 action?

    There can only be One, and it is the m98, all others are just wannabe's. So THERE!
    Nitroman, you know you still like me and the Mauser M98, it's Mark V that is the problem
    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
    THE MIND OF A SCHOLAR
    THE HEART OF A CHILD
    THE HIDE OF A RHINOCEROS

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by akav8r View Post
    Beartooth, sorry to hear about your neighbor's loss. While it's wonderful no one got hurt, it's not going to be fun dealing with the insurance company now....
    Yeah akav8r, it is already shaping up into a struggle for my neighbor I hope he can clear things up and settle. Don't ask me what I think of insurance companies after Katrina. But life does go on.
    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
    THE MIND OF A SCHOLAR
    THE HEART OF A CHILD
    THE HIDE OF A RHINOCEROS

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Al View Post
    Gald nobody was hurt in that one. Is there a better way to sell a house?
    Big Al, it is strange that you said "Is there a better way to sell a house?" My neighbor had just bought a peace of property way out in the country and was going to sell and build out there. Don't know how it is all going to work out for him now.
    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
    THE MIND OF A SCHOLAR
    THE HEART OF A CHILD
    THE HIDE OF A RHINOCEROS

  13. #13
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    I can't believe I am going to do this but....

    Waaayyyy back in 1972 or so, when I was getting into reloading to feed my M1 carbine, I bought some gun buyers guide or something. In that book (it was pretty thick), there was a spread on Weatherby's. Yeah...(deep sigh), I fell in love with the Weatherby, and the original Weatherby scopes. But it was way out of my league. I ended up spending exactly $192.00 on a Parker-Hale (Jana Imports Co.), .30'06, soft guncase, and a box of Remington ammo the dealer added to sweeten the deal. I had my uncle buy it for me. So that ended my lust for Weatherby's. But if someone were to give me a .257W or .416W I sure wouldn't turn them away!
    Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Albert Einstein

    Better living through chemistry (I'm a chemist)

    You can piddle with the puppies, or run with the wolves...

  14. #14
    Member c04hoosier's Avatar
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    Default I agree

    Beartooth,

    I agree. I really like the Mark V. I have a stainless one in .300 WBY, and it is a shooter. My first 3 shot group with it went into 1.25 inches--at 200 yards. While it is very strong, that probably isn't the selling point for me. To me, they are higher quality than many of the other brands on the market. For instance, I was going to buy a .375 (H&H or Ruger). I was seriously considering either the Mark V synthetic, the Ruger Hawkeye, or the Remington XCR. First off, I didn't trust the tiny extractor on the Remington, especially for a dangerous game rifle. So then it was between the Ruger and the Weatherby. Well, it just so happened that the local Sportsman's Warehouse had a sale on all guns they had in stock. Well, the Ruger was in stock, but the Weatherby wasn't, so I bought the Ruger. Much to my chagrin, when I function checked it, I noticed that it scratched brass to the point they were not salvageable for reloading. Well, I have sent it back twice now and am waiting to see if the problem is finally rectified. Also, Ruger is bragging about their new "improved" LC6 trigger. But the standard trigger on my Mark V is far and away superior. Overall, my Weatherby is just a much better, smoother, and higher quality rifle. Now I really wish I would have spent the extra money to get the .375 in a Mark V. Oh well, you live and learn.

  15. #15
    Member Float Pilot's Avatar
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    Almost bought a Vanguard (Jap) Weatherby yesterday in 308 with a youth stock and a regular stock, for one of my kids, but the guy wanted to charge me $675 and I see them on Gunsamerica for $420....

    So I passed.... It seemed like it would be OK for $400 to maybe $500 but that was about it... I did like it a lot more than the new Savage plastic stock rifles they had...
    Floatplane,Tailwheel and Firearms Instructor- Dragonfly Aero
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  16. #16
    Big Stick
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    I've set lugs back on MK V's,more than everything else I've owned/own combined...that'd include a few specimens.

    The 9 lugs FAMOUSLY do not bear evenly and are the bane of Precision.

    Deal with it..........................

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Stick View Post
    I've set lugs back on MK V's,more than everything else I've owned/own combined...that'd include a few specimens.

    The 9 lugs FAMOUSLY do not bear evenly and are the bane of Precision.

    Deal with it..........................
    Hmmmmm... looks like he gets some pretty good groups from that *bane of precision*

    Deal with it........

  18. #18
    Big Stick
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    Ahhhh yes....my bad,I'd forgotten about the 9-luggers rewriting all the Score Cards and being the model of efficiency,as per Precision pursuits. They dominate BR,HighPower,Sillywet,F-Class,Tactical Competitions,Practical Courses and are heralded in accordance.

    I'll allow you some awkward silence,so you can stick both of your feet in your mouth,while you illuminate the depths of your grasp upon such matters.

    Spare no detail.....................

  19. #19

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    Hmmmm, speaking of awkward silence.....

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    Default Well

    Some of you all need to go find P.O Ackley books he did a test on the strength of action and believe it or not the old Japanese ariska won out... Anyhow the Savage 110 is he!! for stout as well. Anyhow I like the weatherby it is just the price that drive me off..

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