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Thread: Difference in sighting in???

  1. #1

    Default Difference in sighting in???

    I've got a 454 Casull and my local ranges don't allow full power 454 loads. I've been shooting 45 Colts for awhile and was wondering if a 45 Colt shooting a cast performance (325 grain) bullet at 1325 fps will have a major difference in point of impact vs the 454 shooting the same bullet at 1525 fps. Will only be using the gun for defense so I'm not concerned about longer distances.

    Thanks,
    Mike

  2. #2
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    Depends!! Barrel length? Sights (height)? Weight of the gun? Distance to the target? Your chronograph?

    Slower bullets have higher POI. At 15 yards you likely won't see any difference.

    Your 45 Colt load is almost the same pressure as the 454 load, IF those are true velocities. When you say the range won't allow full power 454 loads, will they allow reduced power 454 loads? I'd say it's the caliber they have banned, no?
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  3. #3

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    A 325 grain from 45 Colt brass is in the 30,000 PSi range and a full power 325 from the 454 is in the 60,000 PSI range not close to the same pressure IMHO

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    Quote Originally Posted by jwp500 View Post
    A 325 grain from 45 Colt brass is in the 30,000 PSi range and a full power 325 from the 454 is in the 60,000 PSI range not close to the same pressure IMHO
    Full power 454 yes, but the velocity of 1525 from the 454 vs 1325 from the 45 Colt case is closer than you think and both over 30,000 psi.

    I don't know from what source his 1325 and 1525 velocities for that 325 grain cast came in but I presume it is published data from a cartridge company likely Buffalo Bore and they down load the 454 to keep bullets in the cylinder and load the 45 Colt to 44 mag pressures. Both loads are close to 40,000 psi.
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  5. #5

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    Murphy,
    You are correct, the range has banned all 454s. The gun is a Ruger SRH with a 7.5" barrel, factory sights. Its Buffalo Bore ammo, I haven't chronographed any of them, strictly going by what they say. In your opinion, do I gain much by using the 454 (200 fps increase) or should I just stick with the 45 colt loads?

    Thanks again,
    Mike

  6. #6

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    The Buffalo Bore 325 grain load clocks 1400 FPS from my 6" custom Bisley and that is above factory velocity claims. The standard for 45 Colt +P loads are mid 30,00 PSI. Brain Pierce has written and published load data for the 45 colt that did not exceed the mid 30,000 psi range and indeed gave 1300 + fps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jwp500 View Post
    The Buffalo Bore 325 grain load clocks 1400 FPS from my 6" custom Bisley and that is above factory velocity claims. The standard for 45 Colt +P loads are mid 30,00 PSI. Brain Pierce has written and published load data for the 45 colt that did not exceed the mid 30,000 psi range and indeed gave 1300 + fps.

    Your custom Bisley may have thoats and bullets more closely matched and would give higher velocities that BB lists.

    I am not disputing the velocity or the mid 30,000 psi, just to say that bullet at 1325 is at 44 mag level and the 454 at 1500 fps is also. Hodgdon's has tested with that Cast Performance bullet from a pressure barrel of 7.25" and gave pressures at 1266 fps of 27,400 CUP....and above what they published, they also tested 1320 fps at 31,900 CUP

    The 454 from a 7.5" pressure barrel was 1511 fps with 34,300 CUP. Part of this is from the differences in a SAAMI 454 chamber and barrel.


    PSI conversion for these would indeed put both in the mid thirties pressure range...that was my point.

    Now, just because you get the same velocity doesn't mean you get the same pressure and vice versa. But it is obvious that 45 Colt high pressure ammo fired form a 454 Cylinder is safe loading, that isn't the point. The 45 Colt is just a more efficient case than the 454 and it will certainly hold enough H110 to reach impressive velocities but it will also reach 40,000 psi.

    Another tidbit of info about cast loadings for that (and other calibers) is the use of gas checks (GC) vs PB bullets. When using H110 or W 296 powder using GC will improve velocity per grain of powder and cut down on leading in the cone from base errosion (I know that is a sore subject for some). Also when using PB bullets the use of H4227 will be easier on the leading and will yield more uniform ignition than the ball propellants. The 45 Colt will hold enough H4227 to push a 300 grain cast to 1300 from barrels of about 5" and stay under 30,000 CUP.

    Also the twist rate of the 454 I think is 1:24 and the 45 Colt is 1:16 making lower velocity and higher pressure for the Colt vs the 454 barrel.
    Also the jump in the cylinder for the 45 Colt from a 454 cylinder is the equivalent of freebore so these 45 Colt loads will be one pressure in the 45 Colt and some lower pressure when fired from a 454 Cylinder and barrel.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeStaten View Post
    Murphy,
    You are correct, the range has banned all 454s. The gun is a Ruger SRH with a 7.5" barrel, factory sights. Its Buffalo Bore ammo, I haven't chronographed any of them, strictly going by what they say. In your opinion, do I gain much by using the 454 (200 fps increase) or should I just stick with the 45 colt loads?

    Thanks again,
    Mike
    The only thing you will gain with the 454 would be a be little less clean up. As for ballistics I don't see much difference in field performance from 1300 vs 1500 fps and recoil would be less so followup shots would come easier. The 454 tricked out would be a better hunter but for up close defensive work the 45 Colt will git-'er-done.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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