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Thread: Confused

  1. #1
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    Default Confused

    After reading about every single post on this and other forums on the best brown bear rifle, I'm left very confused. I'm anticipating buying my new gun for a 2010 spring bear hunt so I can begin practicing with it. I currently shoot a 30-06 and am very comfortable with it. I've never shot anything larger.

    If I can use a 30-06, which my guide says "is fine" with a 220 grain premium bullet (he says he even carries sometimes), then I'd prefer this since I have the weapon and feel comfortable shooting it. I would say there are about 25% posts on the forum supporting the 30-06...the AK Kodiak wildlife site seems to advocate the 30-06 as opposed to larger calibers, saying that it's fine for killing coastal brown bears...

    ...then, there's the others who say the 375 is a necessity! I guess my biggest worry would be if I happend to get a bad shot (which can happen no matter how good you are), say a gut shot for instance, is it more likely the bear will get away than if I was shooting a .375? Since I'll be hunting with a guide "I'm" not too worried about a charge (my personal view) since I will have backup and I think the best way to avoid such occurrances is just to be smart.

    So, that said, should I go with the 375? If it's a must I will. My guide says no, but many say yes. Anyone out there in the real bush who hunt brownies use a 30-06? Any guides out there who have any opinions?

  2. #2
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    If you shoot a 30-06 comfortably with premium bullets, then stick with it. if you want to move up go with a good 300winmag or 338.

    big calibers are great to a point but if you cant shoot them then you might as well throw snowballs.

  3. #3
    Member BRWNBR's Avatar
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    same ol' same ol', shoot it right and it won't matter...if everything goes right, it won't matter if you make good shots it won't matter...BUT if you make a bad shot or things don't go right....you'll wish you had something bigger.
    Any gun will kill a brown bear, thats been proved a hundred times over.
    I say enough gun/bullet is one that will penetrate to the vitals from any angle in any situation....my .02 as a guide....
    Www.blackriverhunting.com
    Master guide 212

  4. #4
    Member Hoyt's Avatar
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    Listen to your guide.

  5. #5
    Member 8x57 Mauser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigE View Post
    ... I guess my biggest worry would be if I happend to get a bad shot (which can happen no matter how good you are), say a gut shot for instance, is it more likely the bear will get away than if I was shooting a .375? ...
    If you shoot it through the guts, a .50 BMG won't kill it quickly.

    I carry a 30-06 in coastal brown bear country, and don't feel under-gunned. I practice with it.

    But if a new rifle is an option, why on earth wouldn't you get one? The largest caliber you can enjoy shooting (you have to practice with it, after all) is the way to go. And a new gun is pretty much always the way to go if you've got the coin.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by BRWNBR View Post
    same ol' same ol', shoot it right and it won't matter...if everything goes right, it won't matter if you make good shots it won't matter...BUT if you make a bad shot or things don't go right....you'll wish you had something bigger.
    Any gun will kill a brown bear, thats been proved a hundred times over.
    I say enough gun/bullet is one that will penetrate to the vitals from any angle in any situation....my .02 as a guide....
    Listen to this guide!!!!!...........

    There are a few guides out there that will not let you hunt with anything less than a .338 caliber. Jut remember that 14 grand for a brownie ain’t cheap and many guides consider a wounded bear as a punched tag....END OF HUNT. I have a buddy that has killed four brownies with 280 Remington and swears that he could kill bears with it day in and day out. I have also seen an interior grizzly take three 250 grain Barns X bullets from a Winchester 300 in the boiler room and keep going like the energizer bunny. All in all it is your call and you have to be happy with your choices.
    Bigmnt

  7. #7

    Default ADF&G's opinion on wounded bears

    Bigmnt:

    Just to clarify your comment--it isn't just guides that "...consider a wounded bear as a punched tag"...ADF&G Spring Supplement in the Kodiak Brown bear section states: "A wounded bear counts against your bag limit for the regulatory year."

    The 2007-08 regulations also have a change notice in bold letters on pg 24 that in Units 1-5 and 8 a wounded bear counts against your limit.

    Just wanted people to be informed...

  8. #8
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    thanks for the info guys. for the 30-06 what are the 200 g sufficient or should I go with 220 g? I couldn't find any 220 g Barnes triple X, but Nosler Partitions come in 220g.

  9. #9
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    I you decide to stay with the 30-06 and plan on using the heavier 200/220 gr. bullets, I recommennd you see how well your rifle shoots them. I've seen and owned '06s that shoot 180s very well but don't like the heavy rounds.

    Some truth in the old addage: "Be careful around a man who owns but one gun."

    or something to that effect.

  10. #10

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    Confused? - don't be.
    If you are "comfortable" with the 30-06 and don't want to work with a larger or more powerful cartridge just be mindful that smaller caliber and/or the power the narrower will be the range of circumstances and the greater the number of shots that will be required to secure the animal (brown bear, moose etc).
    The above statement equally applies to guides. Though I certainly can understand a guide being "fine" with a client using a 30-06, I am very surprised to hear of one using a 30-06 for a "back-up". For about 15 years I carried a .500 H&H double and in a couple of circumstance wished it had been bigger.
    We really preferred the clients us at a least a 300 win mag and no larger than .375. With the .300 saw no difference been 180 and 220 grain bullets.
    Good luck
    Joe (Ak)

    Quote Originally Posted by bigE View Post
    After reading about every single post on this and other forums on the best brown bear rifle, I'm left very confused. I'm anticipating buying my new gun for a 2010 spring bear hunt so I can begin practicing with it. I currently shoot a 30-06 and am very comfortable with it. I've never shot anything larger.

    If I can use a 30-06, which my guide says "is fine" with a 220 grain premium bullet (he says he even carries sometimes), then I'd prefer this since I have the weapon and feel comfortable shooting it. I would say there are about 25% posts on the forum supporting the 30-06...the AK Kodiak wildlife site seems to advocate the 30-06 as opposed to larger calibers, saying that it's fine for killing coastal brown bears...

    ...then, there's the others who say the 375 is a necessity! I guess my biggest worry would be if I happend to get a bad shot (which can happen no matter how good you are), say a gut shot for instance, is it more likely the bear will get away than if I was shooting a .375? Since I'll be hunting with a guide "I'm" not too worried about a charge (my personal view) since I will have backup and I think the best way to avoid such occurrances is just to be smart.

    So, that said, should I go with the 375? If it's a must I will. My guide says no, but many say yes. Anyone out there in the real bush who hunt brownies use a 30-06? Any guides out there who have any opinions?

  11. #11
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    any recommendations for "the best" 30-06 for the 200-220 grain bullets? I was looking at the Remington Alaskan model 700 30-06

  12. #12
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    Here's your chance to add a new gun like the 375. Great calibur weapon for grizz. All things being equal why not increase your killing power and tip the scales a little further in your favor. assuming you can afford it and are going to put in the practice time, it makes little sense not to. This is just my opinion though, good luck!

  13. #13

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    Saw the most consistent results with rem. Korelok (sp)., 180 or 220 didn't seem to matter. However, most of these were with .300s. I really discouraged to bringing of 30-06s. As a "kid" I well remember the "joy and jubilation" within the "packing ranks" when a client would show up with a 30-06 - meant we were going to get "lots of shooting"!
    Joe (Ak)

    Quote Originally Posted by bigE View Post
    any recommendations for "the best" 30-06 for the 200-220 grain bullets? I was looking at the Remington Alaskan model 700 30-06

  14. #14
    Member Bighorse's Avatar
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    Default Back to the begining.

    So I say buy a new gun if you really want to propel a 200-220g bullet
    at usable velocities. When you start shoving a 220g bullet into an 06 case and maintain LOA your really limited on powder. Then you have a bullet that peforms less than optimal. Then your talking about wind drift and most importantly with heavier bullets, drop. Then you gotta consider down range maintained velocity.

    My take is get the 338.

    I can't afford one so I've been working on grandpa's old 300 H&H and trying to get a solid performing 200g bullet. What I'm saying is I want a bullet that peforms reliably when the chips are down and I'm not thinking about fps and bullet drop. I think your getting too much compromise with a 30-06 at those fringe ranges of 200-300 yards when shooting heavy bullets. To avoid the peformance issues with an 06 case I shoot the 25-06 and don't even think about it, x marks the spot.

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    Twas me using a 30-06 for a brown bear hunt I would go with the x's. if I had to drop to a 200gr bullet to do so I would. I havent been to impressed with the blackies I shot using partitions. they work mind you but I like penetration vs the handgranade theory.

  16. #16

    Default use what you got

    don't buy a new rifle you don't need it. Let your guide be your guide. Use your familiar 30-06 with the larger grain bullets it will do just fine. Have a great time practicing and getting ready, you will really enjoy your hunt and the great state of Alaska!

  17. #17
    Member 8x57 Mauser's Avatar
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    Question Not quite clear on the question

    Quote Originally Posted by bigE View Post
    any recommendations for "the best" 30-06 for the 200-220 grain bullets? I was looking at the Remington Alaskan model 700 30-06
    If you're talking about the best rifle, it's the one you know inside out, backwards, forwards, and sideways. The one you shoulder with the muzzle already on target - no need to think or point. The one you've been shooting forever.

    Load the bullet that shoots the best groups at the best velocities, unless for some reason your favorite '06 can't group 200-grainers. Haven't actually heard of that happening, but it's a possibility.

    If you're asking about the best bullet, in the 200-grain category load something with a bonded core for a little added safety margin against bullet fragmentation on heavy bear bone. Or the partition, with its separate rear section that won't break up this side of .300 RUM velocities. Before loading a 200 grain X in the '06, e-mail Barnes and ask what the velocity window is for reliable expansion - then think about how fast you really expect it to be going at the maximum range you'd shoot a bear. Might be fine - I just don't know.

    I'm partial to Alaska Bullet Works' Kodiak bullets myself - they make .308 diameter bullets up to 200 grains. An Alaska bear with an Alaska-made bullet... That sounds right, and they make a high quality projectile that expands well at low velocities and holds together nicely faster than a .300 WM can throw it.

    An '06 can't really overdrive a 220 grain bullet, so I don't know that you have to buy Woodleigh or A-frame. The Corelokt should do everything you need.

  18. #18
    Member Phil's Avatar
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    Default New Rifle

    I'm not a gun collector. In fact, I own 3 rifles, 1 shotgun, 1 Omega, and 1 rimfire .22.

    That said, I do own a 30-06 and a 375 Weatherby. I used to use the 06 for anything - then I went to Africa. Now I use the 375 for anything bigger than an elk.

    I'm very partial to the 270 grain Barnes Tripleshock but that will vary from rifle to rifle. On top of that, the 375 isn't bad to shoot. I have shot a 300 Win Mag and it "slaps" me harder than the 375.

    If I ever hunt brown bears (not likely), it will be with my 375 (or bigger if I own a bigger caliber rifle by then).

  19. #19
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    Thanks for all the info. I decided last night to go with the .375, specifically the Hawkeye 77 "Alaskan" Ruger 375 stainless. It's not two years until the hunt so I'll be practicing every month to get on target. Worst case, I can always resort back to my 30-06.

    Now I have to pick a scope. Looking at the Leupold 1.75-6 or the Schmidt and Bender 1.5-6. Have heard good things about both in my research, but not sure the SB is worth the price difference. Probably not, but the people who have the SB love it.

    Any thoughts?

  20. #20

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    Great!
    Things like holding the rifle tight to the shoulder; "rolling" the rifle into your shoulder and keeping the torso relaxed to help absorb the recoil will greatly reduce any unpleasantness usually associated with using the larger caliber.
    Good Luck
    Joe (Ak)

    Quote Originally Posted by bigE View Post
    Thanks for all the info. I decided last night to go with the .375, specifically the Hawkeye 77 "Alaskan" Ruger 375 stainless. It's not two years until the hunt so I'll be practicing every month to get on target. Worst case, I can always resort back to my 30-06.

    Now I have to pick a scope. Looking at the Leupold 1.75-6 or the Schmidt and Bender 1.5-6. Have heard good things about both in my research, but not sure the SB is worth the price difference. Probably not, but the people who have the SB love it.

    Any thoughts?

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