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Thread: AT SD309 vs. Hamilton 212

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    Default AT SD309 vs. Hamilton 212

    Not much experience with both of these jets. Can anyone point out the positives/negatives of both. Is the Hamilton really worth the extra $$$$? Any info is appreciated. Thanks

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    Member akriverrat's Avatar
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    Default if you dont get much here

    try riverjet forums. most these guys are die hard jetboaters that know the ins and outs very well. heres a link to one thread about the sd 309. sounds like they dont handle foamy water as well as the hamilton or scott.

    http://riverjetmagazine.com/fusetalk...&enterthread=y

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    Member chriso's Avatar
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    What kind of boat are you thinking of putting it in? The 309 will be faster, the hamilton will lift a heavier load more quickly and surely to step. I think the hamilton is more durable from what I've heard and read.

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    I am trying to figure out what options to look at on a new boat. The 309 seems to be the standard option but could be upgraded to a 212.

    It would be on a ThunderJet Luxor.

  5. #5

    Default 212

    Had a jet boat with a 212. Loved it. Reverse was great and handling, especially low-speed was sweet. Two-levers...put the throttle where you want it, put the bucket where you want it, steer it like a car. I thought it hauled a very large load well. Didn't take much to block the grate, but you should have a stomp-grate anyway. I would usually only pick something up when idleling around the bank prior to taking off. Small sticks...or hooligan. The only other issue I ever had was pumping some sand when touching bottom and momentarily jamming the steering. This could happen to any pump I imagine. Be ready to dump your throttle instead of wiggling your wheel, thinking that your steering will come back immediately. Now I'm on a tangent. Anyhow, I loved mine. Jet pumps always seem to be the "latest and greatest."

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    Member Xerophobic's Avatar
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    Two totally different styles of pump

    SD309: pressure style pump, pumps water at high pressure but relatively low volume. Large difference in impeller size to nozzle size (maybe 2:1) Excellent in lighter, fast boats.

    Upsides: very responsive to higher HP and is "nearly" limitless in top speed, inexpensive

    Downsides: poor reverse and are often not good at "processing" debris, poor low speed handling

    Hamilton 212: low pressure/high volume pump. pumps around twice as much water as a 309 at a given rpm, commercial grade pump, extremely well made/durable. Much lower impeller to nozzle ratio. Extremely effective in larger heavier boats and at carrying loads at lower planing speeds. Excellent holeshot and steering ability

    Upsides: extremely good reverse and low speed handling

    Downsides: tend to fall on their face in terms of top speed at about 55 mph regardless of HP, expensive


    Basically we tell customers a pressure style pump is the only pump to have if top speed is a concern. For boats which may see a heavy load and where planing and manuvering is important the Hamilton pump can certainly be worth the upgrade price. In fact we will often encourage customers to upograde to a 212 before they add a bigger engine or HP to a boat as I feel its often money better spent to get the upgraded pump. For customers who never intend to heavily load their boat and are not concerned with rapid planing etc the Hamilton can be a bit pricey.

    Its really not hard to see why a 212 planes faster and handles better with better reverse when you simply think of the sheer volume of water it is moving, and this is also why it performs better at idle speeds. Impellers for the 212 are extremely pricey altho also very durable and as stated do perform better in aerated water(again due to sheer volume moved)

    One other important consideration is the lack of inexpensive and readily available trim units for the 212. Power trim for AT pumps are common and inexpensive

    Hope this helps

    Cheers

    p.s. just for the curious the Mercury Sportjet pumps are far closer to being a volume pump like the Hamilton than they are a pressure pump
    Skinny water addict

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    Member akriverrat's Avatar
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    Default so xerophobic

    i get 50 mph out if my 5.7 litre with a 2.4 turbo impellar. you are telling me i cant go any faster with a bigger motor and impellar option? say a stroker 383 with a 3.4 pitched turbo impellar or a 454 big block with the 3.4? where would i see improvement in a bigger motor and impellar holeshot, load carrying? not trying to put you on the spot just curious.

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    Member Xerophobic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by akriverrat View Post
    i get 50 mph out if my 5.7 litre with a 2.4 turbo impellar. you are telling me i cant go any faster with a bigger motor and impellar option? say a stroker 383 with a 3.4 pitched turbo impellar or a 454 big block with the 3.4? where would i see improvement in a bigger motor and impellar holeshot, load carrying? not trying to put you on the spot just curious.
    Well its not "quite" as simple as I stated but you're not going to break any speed records with a 212 thats for sure. Adding HP you will most definitely notice faster holeshot and unbelivable acceleration but even with say 600 HP the 212 wont be wanting to go that fast(maybe 60's) Throw the same 600 Hp at a 309 and be prepared to be over 80 in the right hull and possibly hunting for the century mark in a race type hull.

    No one races 212 style pumps(in marathon racing anyway)

    IMO you made the right move in adding the upgraded pump while staying with the stock engine(assuming thats stock for your package) Adding power now will only improve your ability to plane quickly and carry heavier loads, handling etc but I doubt you will see a staggering increase in speed, we're talking 5 mph or less more than likely. 212's are awesome pumps but top speed is the one area they are not strong in.

    Cheers
    Skinny water addict

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    Member akriverrat's Avatar
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    Default thanks

    for the explanation. fifty in this northriver is fast enough anyway. to go faster id want a hull that was designed for speed to feel comfortable in. a faster cruise rate would be nice though.

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    Default Thanks for the help

    This clears up which pump I will be getting. The 212 is more along the lines of what I am looking for in terms of performance and load capability. I'm not looking to break any speed records, just want to get there and do so efficiently.

  11. #11

    Default my thoughts

    I would agree with everything thats been said. I would add that the white pumps have a few things going for them. First the cleanout is on the outside of the boat, this is very useful. I've been able to clean out my jet, when out with others in 212's had to trailer the boat to fix.

    There is no comparison when it comes to cost of ownership. The Hamilton 212 is a great pump however it cost double what a 309 or 312 cost. Also the 309 or 312 are much cheaper to maintain. Impellers are substantially cheaper on the 309 or 312. Tearing one apart and replacing the impeller or wear ring can be done in a few hours. Simple stuff to work on.

    Additionally the 312 is a pretty nice improvement over the 309 if you have the option to run one you should try it. A 312 with the HTR or the SDR bucket is pretty impressive jet unit.

    Just my two cents.

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    Member Xerophobic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arctic_import View Post
    I would agree with everything thats been said. I would add that the white pumps have a few things going for them. First the cleanout is on the outside of the boat, this is very useful. I've been able to clean out my jet, when out with others in 212's had to trailer the boat to fix.

    There is no comparison when it comes to cost of ownership. The Hamilton 212 is a great pump however it cost double what a 309 or 312 cost. Also the 309 or 312 are much cheaper to maintain. Impellers are substantially cheaper on the 309 or 312. Tearing one apart and replacing the impeller or wear ring can be done in a few hours. Simple stuff to work on.

    Additionally the 312 is a pretty nice improvement over the 309 if you have the option to run one you should try it. A 312 with the HTR or the SDR bucket is pretty impressive jet unit.

    Just my two cents.
    Very good points here, Im kicking myself for forgetting about the internal vs external cleanout! Extensions are available altho sometimes its just a case of not being very accessable in the back of the boat.

    I didnt bring up the AT312 to keep the convo simple but it is a good alternative to the 212 as stated, and is a far cheaper upgrade from the 309

    Cheers
    Skinny water addict

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    Correct me if I'm wrong but the 312 is not as common of a jet as the 209 or the 212?

    Also, since we've diverted from the original subject, does anyone have experience with the kodiak 3 stage?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sako_300 View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong but the 312 is not as common of a jet as the 209 or the 212?

    Also, since we've diverted from the original subject, does anyone have experience with the kodiak 3 stage?
    Not as common but certainly a viable option for a bigger boat carrying heavier loads etc and its most certainly a current production model

    Cheers
    Skinny water addict

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    Default Hamilton 212

    I have a Hamilton 212 (2.4 kw impellor) in my 6m alloy Kwikkraft and I have to say it was a very good choice. There was much debate about what to go for but age old reliability got the better of me and I ended up with an Indmar 350 (350 chev) close coupled to a Hamilton 212. We tested it last year and clocked it at 101km/hr. This was done in true Guinness book of records fashion by doing it 2 or 3 times just to be sure - with GPS. I was quite surprised at the speed and it's ability to react to sudden needs of speed when caught in the surf off the local beach... 212 is a good alround unit and pushes this boat very well.

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    Thumbs up Hamilton 212

    Quote Originally Posted by sako_300 View Post
    Not much experience with both of these jets. Can anyone point out the positives/negatives of both. Is the Hamilton really worth the extra $$$$? Any info is appreciated. Thanks
    **************************
    2/19/12
    I have represented American Turbine for many years now. We work on all brands of pumps. Your comparison is not a fair one......You would be better off compairing the SD-312 American Turbine to the 212 Hamilton.....Very similar in many ways and not so in others...the performance comparison for most all boats is at the very least parallel. Just a few differences are #1 with AT you're buying a improved pump over the Hamilton that is patented, self flushing wearing ring, better quality nozzle, improved turbo style impeller, improved HTR bucket for lighter controls, improved corrosion protection....to name a few......with the Hamilton Pump you get a Grey pump made in New Zealand with no US Patent!

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    Member Blue Thunder's Avatar
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    captain I would say it sounds as if you are tooting your own horn/product on your first post. Responding to a thread that is almost 4 years old. Come on now and tell us who you are and what you are up to. SPAM?
    Retirement Plan - Having Fun and Still Learning

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    Member broncoformudv's Avatar
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    Where do these people come from?

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    They come from the same hole they need to jump back into....

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