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Thread: Hatchers Pass. Rangers want it closed

  1. #1
    Member arrowslinger's Avatar
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    Default Hatchers Pass. Rangers want it closed

    Went to Hatchers Pass on the Wasilla side on Saturday to do a little looking around. While running around I ran into the Head Ranger for that area and inquired as to when one of the side roads would be open. The response I got was "when I decide to open it". Kinda Harsh I thought for a simple question. She then explained that they wait until the roads are good and dry because people with trucks like mine tear up the wet roads. I have an F-150 stock and she was using an f-250 both about the same truck and she has been driving them routinely to see when they can open. I have no problems with why they keep the roads closed and perfectly understand some people thrash them, I was just asking if she might have an idea as to when. I asked what activity she had seen on these roads and areas and she told me, almost mockingly. She then explained to me that while hunting on that side was "legal" they would prefer it not to happen. Apparently ptarmigan hunters packing in guns scares the winter trail users, and the shooting really scares them. It was also explained to me that with this area being a non ATV area hunters packing out their "bloody packs, and animal parts during bear and moose seasons creeps out the recreational users. They do not like hiking in the areas and seeing animals being dressed out. You have to be 1/4 mile off the trails and main road to shoot. The numbers of recreational users versus hunters was quickly ran by me and how dangerous the encounters had become. She stated that she would like to see hunting stopped in that area and hopes to have it in front of the BOG within the next couple years. She followed up with the dwindling moose population for people to view and the fact that the bears in these areas have never caused anyone any problems so they would prefer no hunting on that side. This is a brief synopsis of the conversation and as I was walking away she was kind enough to remind me that " it is legal though". The whole conversation didn't sit well with me due to the initial attitude factor and then one sentence being nice and helpful and the next being sorta condescending. I wasn't camo'ed out packing guns, just tooling around checking out ground squirrels with the wife and daughter and of course checking out the snow line . I noticed a Ranger and decided to pull over and ask a question. Just a heads up for those of you that apparently use Hatchers for hunting and not recreational. I thought hunting, trapping and fishing were recreational. We honestly have never ran into another person while hunting, hiking to our hunting area with the guns yes, but where we hunt no. So the gears are in motion, not sure how slow they are turning but they are turning.

  2. #2
    Member willphish4food's Avatar
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    Default thanks

    Thanks for that heads up. Its really sad that this person is on the public payroll. Interestingly enough, much more revenue goes to the State Parks from fishing areas in the Valley than from viewing areas like Hatcher's. Sounds like another public servant that forgot that little detail of the job description!

  3. #3

    Default That is BS!!

    They "perfer" that we don't hunt there? What a crock, personal agenda IMO. I don't even hunt there but anybody has a right too, its in the darn regs. "It is still legal though" so maybe I should get up there while I still can. Watch out for bloody packs, everyone run its a hunter!

  4. #4

    Default

    You should have got her badge number and name and file a writen complaint on her. She works for you not her own agenda.

  5. #5
    Member Stogey's Avatar
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    Default Hunter Rights

    Unite before 'they' do.

  6. #6
    Mark
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    Default

    An Eco-Nazi.

    Please note the boundaries of the Hatcher Pass Public Use Area in the map below. Hunting is allowed within this area.

    Also, there is a small area in Hatcher Pass which is classified land: Independence Mine State Historical Park.

    The Eddie Bauer, granola gang has been working on the Hatcher Pass area for decades. I was involved when they were cutting up in the mid-80's. They wanted the cattle grazers out of the entire area. They didn't like the mud and poo on their Eddie Bauer boots as they hiked on leased grazing lands (without the lessor's permission).

    They will not relent until yet another area that was originally accessed and penetrated by miners, hunters, and grazers is theirs..............ALL THEIRS!!!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails hatcher.gif  

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MRose View Post
    You should have got her badge number and name and file a writen complaint on her. She works for you not her own agenda.

    I agree with this persons statement... That is what you should have done, who is she to dictate what you should be doing or what she wants to happen, as long as its legal and you are being responsible.

  8. #8
    Member arrowslinger's Avatar
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    Default

    I have her name and have had her return calls to me about the legal boundaries for some trapping info and also for some bear info. Usually pretty short answers. I was frustrated last year when trying to find out some boundaries and contacted the troopers who then told me to contact the Parks because they leave the parks areas up to the rangers. This turned into a big goat rope of who knows and doesn't know the boundaries. On a side note I wanted to do some bird hunting at a different state park area and couldn't get an answer, called the head F&G guy in Palmer and he new exactly where I was talking about and told me that I was good to go. Still not quite sure because of a new sign posting I saw, I went into the parks office by finger Lake and they informed me that the F&G guy and myself were both wrong. I called the F&G guy back and he was surprised as he hunts there too. I was supposed to receive a call back on the definite findings and never did. I was told that the parks makes up their own rules in their boundaries and sometimes F&G doesn't know. The area in question is around the little su public use area for grouse and having to be a mile off the road to shoot even a bow (yes the sign even stated bows). Anybody else see those signs posted last year at the trail heads?

  9. #9

    Default You Handled It Better Than I Would Have...

    gotta give you credit man, for staying composed and taking the high road.

    I can't believe thay even HIRE people like that in Alaska...she should be patroling the Mall in Washington, DC, making sure no one litters near the monuments and that no one is armed, so that when the thugs catch the poor tourists heading back to the metro they can rob them without any resistance.

    It might be a shock to her, but the freedoms enjoyed (the freedoms we have left anyway) by American citizens were paid for with blood, and by a bunch of men carrying guns, in a series of wars that began well before her time. Her ABILITY to think like an idiot in public, and spout off drivel, was preserved by these very gun-toting souls.

    In addition to that, she happens to live in a state where a significant portion of the population takes pride in being at least partly self sufficient, via hunting or fishing for a portion of their food. If people who come to Alaska and to Hatcher Pass don't like that, maybe they should try vacationing in Palm Springs or Yellowstone, and save themselves the horror of people actually being accountable for our place in the food chain.

    Sorry - but she was way oiutta line, and ought to know better. You set a good example for your wife and kids, staying civil and non-confrontational in the face of such idiocy.

  10. #10
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    Default Hatch pass ranger

    You need to report her to her superiors and file a complaint! Let them know that her anti -hunting attitude is offending the public,and will not be tolerated! Never let an anti-hunter try to shove their ethics down your throat , they don't have that right! Hunters need to swarm when an anti hunter tries to belittle a hunter, and she is clearly an anti-hunter. Write a letter to the editor of the local paper. Let people know what she is doing. Maybe it won't be enough to get her fired this time ,but if enough citizens start to complain their is precedence on the record. Hunting is our heritage and the reason why we have such great wildlife resources here in America period! True hunters have respect for the game, an anti-hunter hates wildlife or is indifferent, no matter what they claim. Hunters need to stick together.Do what you can to get rid of her.

  11. #11

    Default Tell Her

    Yea, that's it ! While she may work in AK, she doesn't work for you. She works for F & G or the parks service.
    While she maybe a state employee you don't pay her salary; if she did you could fire her! She wears a brown shirt and a badge and works for the state and writes citations for them not you. The moneys collected from citations are for her benefit not yours. She doesn't have to like you or your recreational past times. Just be there on site and do her job keeping you in line .
    " Americans will never need the 2nd Amendment, until the government tries to take it away."

    On the road of life..... Pot holes keep things interesting !

  12. #12
    Member Stogey's Avatar
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    Default Personal

    Things went from them and they to a Her, She, etc.

    Not sure that she should be terminated for expressing her, unpopular, opinion.

    Never met her, pretty sure we won't see eye to eye on many things. Doubt we'll become friends. Not sure she should be terminated for expressing a negative opinion about a type of recreation to her customer.

    I didn't get from their conversation that she stopped anyone from doing anything that is legal.
    She was terse, probably not too friendly. Not usually qualities that go over good as an officer of the law, court, government, big brother, them, etc.

    Now, while in uniform, in the performance of her duties - describing her plans (and maybe the plans of some of her co-workers) - that are not the policy of her department... that might warrant a reprimand at the worse.

    Don't let it get personal... keep it official. Keep it on the policy, the law. Heck, make the Ranger department go on record what their future plans are for the Hatcher Pass area.
    This info might be on the down-low, but is sure isn't classified.

    Good luck!

  13. #13

    Default

    He didn't ask her opinion or her advice, he just wanted info about hunting in that area. She deserves at the very LEAST, to be reprimanded or moved to another position where she can't come in contact with the public.

  14. #14
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    Default

    Should have gotten her badge number and written her supervisor a recomending letter of no return. Some people when they wear any authority seem to think that they are the greatest, but forget that it is the sportsman who are paying their salary.

  15. #15

    Default wow

    Seems sad that some of you seem ready to string-up this park ranger...
    We've only heard on side of this story.

    Assuming the side we have heard is 100% true (of course), stooping to the same level adds no favor to the hunters bag o' rights.
    Sadly, interactions for rangers with tourists, who dislike hunting activities, likely out number those of rangers with hunters 100:1.
    Perhaps not her place to share her own opinion with such spirit, while wearing her state uniform, but I'd bet that opinion is the most commonly heard by her as well.
    If we as hunters want to make a difference, band together! Start calling rangers where you hunt and thanking them for protecting the lands you enjoy! Call your representatives, governor and congressman, and do the same.
    On a personal note... And as a lifelong hunter who has become disheartened by slobs: Stop allowing the slob hunters to threaten our rights!

  16. #16

    Default "Preferred" Customers

    Quote Originally Posted by Stogey View Post
    Things went from them and they to a Her, She, etc.

    Not sure that she should be terminated for expressing her, unpopular, opinion.

    Never met her, pretty sure we won't see eye to eye on many things. Doubt we'll become friends. Not sure she should be terminated for expressing a negative opinion about a type of recreation to her customer.

    I didn't get from their conversation that she stopped anyone from doing anything that is legal.
    She was terse, probably not too friendly. Not usually qualities that go over good as an officer of the law, court, government, big brother, them, etc.

    Now, while in uniform, in the performance of her duties - describing her plans (and maybe the plans of some of her co-workers) - that are not the policy of her department... that might warrant a reprimand at the worse.

    Don't let it get personal... keep it official. Keep it on the policy, the law. Heck, make the Ranger department go on record what their future plans are for the Hatcher Pass area.
    This info might be on the down-low, but is sure isn't classified.

    Good luck!
    IMHO, she was expressing viewpoints that could very easily be construed as favoring one type of recreational user over another, and THAT is not her job as a Ranger I believe. As long as the recreational user (hunter, hiker, berry picker, whomever) obeys the Park rules they should be welcome, and certainly should not feel LESS welcome than other recreational users.

    And, it would be good for her to remember that the recreational user group she seemed to have less desire for, provides a much larger share of the funds used to manage the moose population than the hikers and sightseers. So, at least in part, their ability to view moose could be credited to the funds that WE provide for their management.

  17. #17
    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    Default

    I hope that you do complain and here is why. The average hiker picks a flower up there and despite it being against the law they get a slap on the wrist and the rules reiterated. Now a hunter strays across the boundary unintentionally and shoots a Ptarmigan do you think they will get a slap on the rist? Now if you lodge a complaint and others follow suite then if/when a hunter makes that mistake the lawyer has a better chance of defending the hunter due to the history of bias bias by the ranger.

  18. #18
    Member dkwarthog's Avatar
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    Default

    I agree with most of what people have posted on this topic in that her personal views should likely be kept to herself when in uniform. Especially if consumptive uses are legal and traditional.

    However, I have worked in the park system (Denali SP) and I can say that the vast majority of the rangers contact is with backpackers and tourists who's views are probably skewed towards non-consumptive uses. It's possible that she's advocating for the majority of people she has contact with. I've spent a ton of time in HP and I can say that majority of the folks I run into are more into viewing than consuming.

    When I worked at DSP, the rangers were not too enthused about folks out bear hunting there. It was (and is) legal, but they just discouraged it because of the negative impact seeing bear carcasses had on the tourist types and the PR problems that ensue.

    Would I hesitate to hunt bears in Denali State Park? Absolutely not!!!

    Would I hunt in a way that focuses my impact to areas that are not visible to the trail system? ABSOLUTELY!!

    It's just common courtesy to consider other users and how their opinions frame us as hunters and consumers of the resource, even if we dont agree with their (non) consumptive preferences. JMO for what little its worth..

  19. #19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dkwarthog View Post
    I agree with most of what people have posted on this topic in that her personal views should likely be kept to herself when in uniform. Especially if consumptive uses are legal and traditional.

    However, I have worked in the park system (Denali SP) and I can say that the vast majority of the rangers contact is with backpackers and tourists who's views are probably skewed towards non-consumptive uses. It's possible that she's advocating for the majority of people she has contact with. I've spent a ton of time in HP and I can say that majority of the folks I run into are more into viewing than consuming.

    When I worked at DSP, the rangers were not too enthused about folks out bear hunting there. It was (and is) legal, but they just discouraged it because of the negative impact seeing bear carcasses had on the tourist types and the PR problems that ensue.

    Would I hesitate to hunt bears in Denali State Park? Absolutely not!!!

    Would I hunt in a way that focuses my impact to areas that are not visible to the trail system? ABSOLUTELY!!

    It's just common courtesy to consider other users and how their opinions frame us as hunters and consumers of the resource, even if we dont agree with their (non) consumptive preferences. JMO for what little its worth..
    Warthog - well stated, and well thought out. Let me take a different angle if I may...

    I don't think it does ANYONE any good to "limit" their hunting to those portions of the legal areas that are not visible to the trail system, where less hikers/tourists are likely to roam. Hunting is a crucial tool in wildlife management, and I think everyone would be better off if all parties are at least able to acknowledge that it happens, whether they prefer to engage in it or not. Why should WE be asked to demonstrate a common courtesy that seems not to be extended to us in turn? Why can't the non-consumptive users accept that others have different beliefs and usage patterns than them, and be comfortable with that?

    I don't care one iota whether other users of wilderness areas engage in the activities that I do or not; but woe unto the person who comes upon me and tries to look down at their nose at what I'm doing, they may get more of a response than they were prepared for.

    How come "why can't we all just get along" does not include ALL people being asked to accept that others may have different beliefs than their own.

  20. #20

    Default ok

    Warthog... well put
    MD... It does us good to keep positive PR, because as hunters, we are the MINORITY.
    I don't think the attitude of, Why should WE be asked to demonstrate a common courtesy that seems not to be extended to us in turn', is going to help.
    Being a slob hunter around the NON-hunting users, makes more ANTI-hunters for the rest of us to fight.

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