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Thread: Enfield 1917 .458 Lott

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    Default Enfield 1917 .458 Lott

    I just picked up a nice Enfield 1917 action that I am considering basing a custom built .458 Lott on. I will probably go with a 20 or 22" SS barrel and have all metal parts either parkarized or Teflon finished. I am considering using a wood stock that I already have. This gun would be used for a primary bear gun in the ABC islands. Who knows I might load up some of the 350gr loads and take it for goats!

    Does anyone on here have experience with this conversion and have a gunsmith they could recommend? Any other ideas on finishes, barrels or add-ons would be welcome.

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    I had a 1917 with 20" bbl chambered in 458Lott years ago. irons only, no scope, regret getting rid of that one. I went with a kevlar stock with a mercury recoil reducer. the rifle weighed a hair over 7lbs by the time it was done. knocked the snot out of you on the bench though. off the bench it wasnt bad (it wasnt a 30-06 mind you). I had it rust blued and for south central it held up decently, not sure about SE though.

    Get ahold of Steve at alaska custom. he ahs done a few of my 1917's and does a good job with them.

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    Default .458 lott on 1917

    You can put a P14 bolt in it and saw getting the bolt face modified. I may have an extra bolt body to trade if you need one.

    For some reason 1917 stocks tend to split at the tang- it may be the angled rear screw. Watch your bedding carefully with any stock on the P14 or P17.



    Quote Originally Posted by j_h_nimrod View Post
    I just picked up a nice Enfield 1917 action that I am considering basing a custom built .458 Lott on. I will probably go with a 20 or 22" SS barrel and have all metal parts either parkarized or Teflon finished. I am considering using a wood stock that I already have. This gun would be used for a primary bear gun in the ABC islands. Who knows I might load up some of the 350gr loads and take it for goats!

    Does anyone on here have experience with this conversion and have a gunsmith they could recommend? Any other ideas on finishes, barrels or add-ons would be welcome.

    Read more >> Options >>





    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    Default enfield 17

    Okay, naive question, how much is this all going to cost if you provide the action with bolt?
    I had posted earlier regarding what to do with two Enfield p14 drill rifles I had (drilled through the barrel, action still good etc.
    Curious and broke

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    You need to have the receivers checked first, the early ones were not heat treated properly and had a bad habit of coming apart at just the wrong moment. Any decent gunsmith would have the serial numbers of the early ones to avoid. Let me look at some of my books and I'll post back.
    Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Albert Einstein

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    Quote Originally Posted by swedeshooter View Post
    Okay, naive question, how much is this all going to cost if you provide the action with bolt?
    I had posted earlier regarding what to do with two Enfield p14 drill rifles I had (drilled through the barrel, action still good etc.
    Curious and broke
    You know, with the P-14 you could build a .577 T-Rex.
    Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Albert Einstein

    Better living through chemistry (I'm a chemist)

    You can piddle with the puppies, or run with the wolves...

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    Default Good or bad Enfields

    The P14s / P17s aren't quite as simple to check by serial nos.as the 03 Springfields.

    Most of the problems are with the earlier Eddystone manufactured guns - some were hardened to the point of being brittle. They were also made of a different material than the Remngtons and Winchesters according to P.O. Ackley.

    The simple test to take a good file to the bottom of the receiver ring. If the file will take a "bite" and remove some metal the action should be O.K. If the file has a difficult time removing metal than the action is too hard and should not be used for any cartridge with any pressure. Some of the receiver rings will also crack on the bottom along the axis of the bore.

    The rails must be modified somewhat also - I just tried a .458 win in a P14 action I had laying on the bench and it didn't fed right. Along with the rails you will also need to lengthen the magazine box.

    If you are going to all that trouble and money try to find a Remington Model 30 or 30S to build the gun with - a lot of the work is already done.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitroman View Post
    You need to have the receivers checked first, the early ones were not heat treated properly and had a bad habit of coming apart at just the wrong moment. Any decent gunsmith would have the serial numbers of the early ones to avoid. Let me look at some of my books and I'll post back.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    Default cocking mechanism

    Has anyone had the bolt changed to cock on opening? The modifications I have seen did not do it for me and cock on closing does not seem to bother me.

    I Think this conversion will end up costing around $4-500, but I really could not say; I have not talked to any smiths yet.

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    I never really understood the cock on opening thing. I hunt with an empty chamber so if I have to shoot it means I have to chamber a round...hence it will "cock".

    If I have a misfire, I'm not gonna try the same round again. So that means chambering another round....see above.

    If I do have a loaded chamber and it doesnt go bang..see above again.

    What am I missing on this cock on opening thing. I'm sure there is a very legitimate reason for having it, I just dont understand.

    As for cost, my latest 1917 project is my 416rem. with the bbl and metalwork. I'm running a hair over $500. its still not finished and this is a plain jane gun.

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    Default

    This action is a late production Eddystone so there should not be any tempering issues. I figured the rails would need some work and I had also anticipated the longer magazine. The stock is a good, thick wristed piece of walnut by Bishop stocks and should fit my need well with the addition of a cross bolt and some steel bedding.

    As far as barrel lengths; what are your preferences?

    Depending on the feedback I get and cost estimates on this project I might opt for a more straight forward conversion such as 338-06. We will have to wait and see.

    What are peoples thoughts on converting a Remington 721 to .458 Lott? The action seems a little puny to me but it handles .300 H&H just fine. I also do not like the absence of claw extraction and controlled round feed in a dangerous game gun. Just a tangent, errant thought.



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    Default Thumpers

    Blink - kind of my thoughts on the subject of cocking.

    Now a .577 T-rex; I like the idea of 5 tons of energy! I also think a .585 Nyati would be a lot of fun. In a 14lb gun.

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    Default Enfield Conversion

    Remember that the P14 was a Brit gun! The Brits like the cock on closing because it is simplier and the user is not trying to cock the gun and start the extraction process at the same time. Cock on closing also allows for a longer firing pin fall which was proqbably important in the early bolt guns. i think all the Lee-Enfields designsare cock on closing as are the Jap military rifles.

    The commercal versions of the 1917 i.e. the 30, 30S, and 720 all cock on openning.

    Hunting with a empty chamber is great except when you are in heavy brush with nasty animals. In that case I'll use my safety; the 1917 safety in fine.


    Quote Originally Posted by Blink View Post
    I never really understood the cock on opening thing. I hunt with an empty chamber so if I have to shoot it means I have to chamber a round...hence it will "cock".

    If I have a misfire, I'm not gonna try the same round again. So that means chambering another round....see above.

    If I do have a loaded chamber and it doesnt go bang..see above again.

    What am I missing on this cock on opening thing. I'm sure there is a very legitimate reason for having it, I just dont understand.

    As for cost, my latest 1917 project is my 416rem. with the bbl and metalwork. I'm running a hair over $500. its still not finished and this is a plain jane gun.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blink View Post
    I never really understood the cock on opening thing. I hunt with an empty chamber so if I have to shoot it means I have to chamber a round...hence it will "cock".

    If I have a misfire, I'm not gonna try the same round again. So that means chambering another round....see above.

    If I do have a loaded chamber and it doesnt go bang..see above again.

    What am I missing on this cock on opening thing. I'm sure there is a very legitimate reason for having it, I just dont understand.

    As for cost, my latest 1917 project is my 416rem. with the bbl and metalwork. I'm running a hair over $500. its still not finished and this is a plain jane gun.
    Cock on opening or cock on closing are two different ways of skinning the same cat.

    Cock on opening cocks the action, (loads the main spring) as the bolt is lifted and the main spring is loaded while the bolt is open and of course after it is closed. As the bolt is closed, the final down stroke allows the striker to rest on the sear. While the bolt is open or out it is cocked and the striker rests in a notch, the full cock notch, on the camming slot on the cocking piece.

    Cock on closing doesn't load the main spring until the last 3/4" (appx.) of forward travel of the bolt just before the down stroke of the bolt. The striker comes to rest on the sear as the bolt moves forward and holds it there through the down stroke. This type doesn't use the camming action of a cocking peice to cock the action and when the bolt is open or out it is not cocked, and the main spring is at rest.

    The advantages of each or maybe just the differences of each type would be; Cock on closing doesn't load the main spring while the bolt is open and may be stored for long periods of time with the bolt open or out, without fear of the mainspting taking a set. When extracting a case, that is done with the first upstroke of both types but with the cock on opening action adds further load to the initial bolt lift and for a tight case or stuck bolt it requires greater effort to lift the bolt.

    Some countries military believed there was a particular advantage of one over the other but that changed over the fifty or so years of military bolt guns. I think there was some reason for the cock on closing from the view from the international patent office as countries who built cock on opening guns would have to pay royalties to Mauser because of his patents on the M98' scock on opening.

    I think we are more accustomed to the cock on opening but I have used both and don't seen enough difference to make an issue of it. You can carry a round in the pipe and rely on the mechanical safety with either action or you could carry with a full magazine and cycle the bolt quick for a rapid first shot. Some have said that the cock on closing action is slightly faster to operate, I can't say. I will say the P-17 is one very strong action and very suitable for large calibers. I can't speak to the heat treatment or lack of it or about the metallurgy but I v'e used the actions for three very large calibers and find a well tuned P-17 a great DG rifle.

    Art Alphin of A Square has used many of them very successfully in making large caliber heavy hitting rifles. They do work well.
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    If you do decide on the T-Rex and can find a smith willing to build it, I have close up photos of an A-Square showing how the mag box was done, and also have dimensions for the magazine box and bolt face.

    Unfortunately, I don't think you'll be able to find a smith who'll do it.
    Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Albert Einstein

    Better living through chemistry (I'm a chemist)

    You can piddle with the puppies, or run with the wolves...

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    A .577 would be a lot of fun but not exactly practical. That is a project I will tackle when I get a little more time (and the wife allows me a little more funds!).

    I have been looking for a bigger load for a while now and started with .416 calibers, .416 Taylor primarily. Then I decided that I wanted something with a little bigger frontal area and contemplated the .45s and .50s. The .50s did not seem quite so versatile or numerous leaving me with the .45s. Now here is a versatile caliber with many options for bullets and rounds. I finally ended up at the .458 Lott because it is a major thumper but still fairly reasonable between recoil and cost. Once I fill this gap then I will look for my next one to fill.

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