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Thread: ADN article. Pred Control and Law Enforcement

  1. #1
    Member martentrapper's Avatar
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    Default ADN article. Pred Control and Law Enforcement

    I thought this was interesting. Good to hear of someone standing up for themselves.

    http://www.adn.com/outdoors/story/409628.html
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    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    If you you are an honest person that has been busted by the right trooper while making an honest mistake then you know the look in their eyes as they right the ticket or in this case take your stuff. It is pure satisfaction! Sickening, That same trooper skulks away from a REAL criminal because they know they can manipulate the words of honest person. A REAL criminal doesn't have any guilt to play on. Run accross the right one and they are like a wolf on a newborn calf. They will actually smile while they take your gun, truck, plane etc and ruin your career and way of life if possible. Give the guy his plane back fine him a couple hundred for each wolf and call it good.
    Sorry for the rant I am just sick to my stomach from wathcing good people get railroaded by the "justice" system while crooks can break into houses and kill puppies, rob people etc and the law gives a half arsed effort but when an honest person makes an honest mistake they start blowing thier trumpets hailing their success.

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    Member BRWNBR's Avatar
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    i guided for that guy after he'd shot the wolves, he told me about it an was a bit worried that it was gonna be a political crusifixition and he was right. they mentioned paranoid in the arcticle and i would be too!! my understanding is that it wasn't an honest mistake, he knew he was outside the area, as the wolves inside it were educated and hung in the timber but he didn't figure they'd care cause they wanted wolves dead...whats the diff if its the same wolf in the zone or outa the zone i think was where he was coming from.
    I liked the analodogy of commercial fisherman fishing outside of zones...well put.
    I think he made a really bad decision for shooting the wolves outside the area, but i think he's about to get a spanking when all he really needs is his hand slapped and some priviledges removed. Feel bad for his two little girls and his wife, this has gotta be tough. But bad decisions will lead to situations like that....
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  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by BRWNBR View Post
    I liked the analodogy of commercial fisherman fishing outside of zones...well put.
    It was a good analogy...however a fisherman caught fishing 30 miles over the line is in a class of his own and in a lot more trouble than say 30 boats a season getting tickets for being a quarter mile or less over the line or letting go 10 seconds before the opener.

    He took a huge risk.

    May be a good example though of just why predator management or selective management or intensive management areas what ever you want to call them are not likely to be too effective if 'limited'.

    That McGrath unit has always been the lowest producing aerial control unit because of the cover. Wolves do get smart; so do bears and the cover and where they made the unit contributed (probably) to his own frustration with the "system" and may have pushed him over the edge.

    Unit 16b is likely no better for effective controls; too much cover.


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    Well I think that you guys got it right. As far as David Haeg (he grew up here on the Kenai) hes the nicest guy you will ever meet and so are his family. Losing his favorite plane and his livelihood for five years for shooting wolves over the line is a horrific injustice. You couldnt cut a guy much deeper. And for years you hear of guys poaching sheep, moose, etc. and getting two years of probation and a small fine? The judge and DA should slink away in shame if they had any feelings, but they obviously dont.......
    I come home with an honestly earned feeling that something good has taken place. It makes no difference whether I got anything, it has to do with how the day was spent. Fred Bear

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    Member willphish4food's Avatar
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    Default does the time fit the crime?

    Obviously, an illegal act took place. But why is the state elevating the status of his crime in the manner they did? They proclaimed wolves to be too numerous a predator, and he killed them for the state. The only problem was that he killed them outside the line. (as these particular wolves presumably do not own a GPS nor read maps, they hunted both sides of the line- they just happened to be vulnerable on the wrong side) For this he loses his plane and guiding business and spends years of his life in court.

    Its not bad that a person committing a "game violation" be prosecuted. But is it a "game" violation if the "game" being killed is an unwanted predator in a control area?

    Punish the guy- he committed a crime if you go by the book. But do it in a sensible manner. How about 1000 hours of community service, to be served for Fish and Game? Flying moose surveys would work, as well as assisting in predator control programs- put the guy's love of flying, knowledge of the areas and ability to kill wolves to work for the state, and make lemade from the lemons. But that solution makes sense, so would never happen...

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    Many of us here on this forum, and certainly the aerial gunner teams, know full well how controversial the program is, and that there could be guys like Haber flying around monitoring radio comms and even checking to see if folks are within the boundaries. And all the participants know full well that the aerial gunning programs could be cancelled if we had illegal activities going on.

    The bottom line is that Haeg knowingly went outside the boundaries, which completely went against the agreement he signed with the state in the first place, which threatened the aerial gunning program itself. These guys know they have a lot at stake by participating. That if they are guides, or transporters...that their very livelihood is on the line if they break the rules. That's been spelled out pretty darn clearly I think.

    I haven't followed the case. I don't honestly know what punishment would fit the crime. Just checked the website listed in the article and am reading some of the documents and looks like Haeg had many disagreements with his own lawyers and the whole thing snowballed. It's always ugly once you get enmeshed in the court system...and no doubt the state may not play exactly "fair" or whatever...I don't know the guy, feel badly for him and his family and all, but it always comes back to his decision to take wolves outside the known boundaries. And in thinking about the part about being authorized by the state as a pred-control agent...that it isn't "hunting" but "control," well that's all true until you take wolves outside the control area; once that happens you are no longer an agent of the state and seems that technically you are then wolf "hunting" from a moving aircraft which has real severe penalites anyone who is a participant should already be aware of.

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    Member BRWNBR's Avatar
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    i think the biggest point mark is trying to find a just punishement and not using this guy to make an example for everyone else. punish him unbias just like it should be done...but then again this is the "american justice " system.
    Punishement to fit the crime....plain and simple. Not punishment to fit the public scrutiny.
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  9. #9

    Default You can not break the law to broaden the law.

    Quote Originally Posted by BRWNBR View Post
    i think the biggest point mark is trying to find a just punishement and not using this guy to make an example for everyone else. punish him unbias just like it should be done...but then again this is the "american justice " system.
    Punishement to fit the crime....plain and simple. Not punishment to fit the public scrutiny.
    There have been some real big cases that turned out to be pretty bad on the perpetrator's and their families.

    Everybody I can remember have lost their airplanes; paid fines AND went to jail over same day airborne hunting stuff.

    It's been a while since anyone was caught aerial hunting wolves AND it's been a while since a guide was busted for same day air borne hunting and its been even longer since they busted someone who was making same day air borne hunting for wolves his MO.

    Haeg took a huge risk; plain and simple and it does not sound to me like he is being picked on by the law or has any better defense than those who have gone before him and took their own such risk.

    You know a person can buy a tag to hunt sheep but he can not pull the trigger August 8th and when caught apply the defense that hey.....if I would have done this two days later I would be legal.....


  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by bushrat View Post
    And in thinking about the part about being authorized by the state as a pred-control agent...that it isn't "hunting" but "control," well that's all true until you take wolves outside the control area; once that happens you are no longer an agent of the state and seems that technically you are then wolf "hunting" from a moving aircraft which has real severe penalties anyone who is a participant should already be aware of.
    Worth rereading.

  11. #11

    Default Maybe

    BUT, the next time the state wants someone to bail their wolf controling butts out. This decision might weigh heavily on the minds of people who would help; AND they might choose not to !
    " Americans will never need the 2nd Amendment, until the government tries to take it away."

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    Quote Originally Posted by brav01 View Post
    BUT, the next time the state wants someone to bail their wolf controling butts out. This decision might weigh heavily on the minds of people who would help; AND they might choose not to !
    Well, I'm sure that will happen. But it is notable to remember that his actions were not a mistake, at least not in the meaning of the word that he accidentally strayed out of the area or the rifle went off by itself. At best, he ASSumed that it would be OK to kill wolves anywhere and did not consider his liability for doing so. He went off the reservation so to speak.

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    Default If God gave me an ounce of Bushrats...

    analytical skill, I'd be a genius!

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    Default Injustice!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollybug View Post
    Well I think that you guys got it right. As far as David Haeg (he grew up here on the Kenai) hes the nicest guy you will ever meet and so are his family. Losing his favorite plane and his livelihood for five years for shooting wolves over the line is a horrific injustice. You couldnt cut a guy much deeper. And for years you hear of guys poaching sheep, moose, etc. and getting two years of probation and a small fine? The judge and DA should slink away in shame if they had any feelings, but they obviously dont.......
    I really feel for this guy. To hear how he was punished compared to a "guide" who boldly stole from unsuspecting hunters is enough to make one sick. (I hear Wally Dean Jackson is out of jail and trying to get back in to the buisness.){Text: On 2/2/07, Wally Dean Jackson Jr., 37 yoa, of Nikiski AK, was
    sentenced by the Kenai Superior Court on three felony counts and five
    misdemeanor counts regarding schemes to defraud, issuing a bad check, and
    illegal guiding. Jackson was given 11 1/2 years in jail with 9 1/2
    suspended and had his hunting privileges revoked for 10 years. His
    fishing privileges were revoked for a period of five years. Jackson was
    also placed on 10 years probation and ordered to pay restitution in the
    amount of $117,000.00. Judge Brown stated "On behalf of the State of Alaska I apologize deeply for how this man has offended you. If it were within my power, we'd bring you all back here and demonstrate what a trip of a lifetime can be." He further said that the "Court would do its best to
    secure restitution in the matter" for all the victims. As part of the
    pre sentencing agreement dozens of other charges were dismissed.
    Author: MDC0 & JTM9

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    Member Matt's Avatar
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    Man, losing your plane over shooting a handful of stupid wolves is retarded. *** is the state thinking.

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    dean jacksons back in business....ohh great. i've had dealings with him.
    Haeg will get his handed to him, no doubt about that, just a matter of HOW they hand it to him.
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    Member Stogey's Avatar
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    Default Hear hear!

    Quote Originally Posted by willphish4food View Post
    Punish the guy- he committed a crime if you go by the book. But do it in a sensible manner. How about 1000 hours of community service, to be served for Fish and Game? Flying moose surveys would work, as well as assisting in predator control programs- put the guy's love of flying, knowledge of the areas and ability to kill wolves to work for the state, and make lemade from the lemons. But that solution makes sense, so would never happen...
    Don't know all the details of the case... but based upon what I have read:

    In my (notso) humble opinion this is where our legal system fails the public.
    Here we have a MAN who owned-up (Integrity) to his crime.
    He should be punished.
    It should hurt.
    It should NOT be the same as a poacher, ie: someone who was CAUGHT by our enforcement officials. The poacher has no integrity. The criminal caught by LE forced the state to utilize resources that could be better served for other purposes.

    What better way to repay 'the community' than to utilize your skills/talents to benefit the state?

    Soap box off...

    Integrity - Doing what is right, even when no one else is watching.

    "Integrity is like virginity, once you've lost it..." - Ike

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