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Thread: Bear Bait Hunt Ethics

  1. #1
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    Default Bear Bait Hunt Ethics

    Question about Bear Bait Ethics;

    I know that there is no written rule about putting a stand near other hunters. We have all heard about it, seen it ourselves, and/or are going through it now.

    My issue is this. I have an established stand. Was passed down from other hunters directly to me. So I kind of feel like it's my small piece of the earth if you know what I'm saying.

    With that being said, I got a late start this year actually putting out bait. I always register on or around the 15th just put out bait late. Mostly due to weather. I just seen another Permit about 200 yards from my stand the other day. I am not sure if the party has a different stand or they think that mine is "unoccupied".

    Is is ethicly correct or acceptable for another hunter to stumble upon a stand that was built and maintained by your own hard work, and one that they think is not being used and simply slap a permit up and hunt it? I suppose that it would be easier for someone to find a stand already built. Hell lets be honest, it was hard to build those stands.

    To me, I would honestly be frieghtened almost to hunt on some one elses stand. I like to think that I respect others enough to know that someone else has claimed that area and it should be left that way.

    I know there are plenty of abandoned stands out there. Maybe they should watch it for a year and see if no one comes back to it and then take it over.

    To summarize, someone has a permit about 200 yards uphill from my stand and I think that they think that my stand is abondoned and might plan to hunt it. Maybe they did not see my Permit. I'm not sure. I have taken the effort to make sure the Permit is now Flat on a piece of wood in plain view for all to see. I have even placed it basically on the stand as sad as that is to show that at least those few feet of earth is my hunting area. I simply do not want to have an issue with other hunters who love the outdoors as much as I do.

    Old Murphy Dome Road is my location.

    Fella's any thoughts on this one???

  2. #2
    Member AK145's Avatar
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    I would never, ever put a bait under another person's stand, down the trail from their stand or even just down the road 3/4 of mile from their stand (yes...that was for you fullkurl) These clowns that wonder down a trail, see a stand up and don't see a bait on the 15th, and I guess think no one is baiting it because there is no bait there are un-ethical at best.

    It does come down to ethics and how you wish to hunt and how you wish others to perceive the way you hunt.

  3. #3
    Member GITDEMBARS's Avatar
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    Default Sticky situation

    I would have to say yes it's borderline unethical but..... Being only my second year baiting I do not have a "go to" site but if I did I would be at F&G on day one registering my site (should already have a good grid) and get it marked ASAP. For the guy wandering around looking for an area he has no idea otherwise. Is it a bear stand? Moose stand? How long has it been unattended? Is the owner comming back? Did he leave the state? Is he alive? etc. etc.
    Now I can sypathize with the guy who puts in all the work to build a nice established stand, I can't wait till I can land on the right area to be able to but....The regulation also states "you must remove bait, litter and equipment from the site when hunting is complete." If we all did a better job of this there would be no question "equipment = occupied."

  4. #4
    Supporting Member AFHunter's Avatar
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    Default good luck

    I would not hunt another stand abandoned or not, without permission from an owner.
    Here is an answer to everyone's problem with other baiters close to them. Make a sign and post at the main trail, that a person wouold have to pass to get with-in a couple miles of your stand. Which states an active bear bait stand is in the area. All hunters are ethical and will steer clear of your area. Now for the slobs, thiefs, pigs...... that take a gun to the woods that are not hunters they can be dealt with a different way. I would treat the non-hunter the same way as someone who was in my house at night stealing stuff, knowing he is wrong and doing it anyway.

    ALL-in-all, I think that most baiters trying to hide their stand from everyone actually get squatted on by hiding the stands. I hide my stand, but no-one so far is willing to work as hard as me to get to my stand. Post a sign at the trail head of your stand and let folks know you are in the area. No law exists that says "you can't put your own bearbait sign up year round". I leave my name and phone number on my stand year round. No-one has called yet. No-one has squatted yet either.

    My 2 cents for Madmike, I think you did the right thing by posting your stand, although it was late. I would suggest getting a hold of this guy and work out which stand you both will hunt since you both are baiting the same area. You might even make a new friend. Hunt the one stand together, at different times, however you want to but, technically he was there first this year, right or wrong, and life is too **** short to be selfish or mean. Look at it this way. If you both only bait one stand that is half the bait to buy and should be half the gas money. If you bait both stands you are hurting both of your chances for a bear. I hope you can come to an agreement. Let us know how it works out. Good luck, Rod

  5. #5

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    I think the biggest mistake guys make is hiding their stands and permits off of trails thinking that no one will find it. That will lead to you being squatted upon no questions asked and it will most likely be unintentional. Post your sign in an obvious place and hope that guys will do the right thing. I can tell you that I spent a lot of time and fuel last year driving up and down the Elliot highway launching wheelers at trails that I know of in search of a new baiting area and every single access point that I launched on led to at least one bear bait and in some cases multiple bear baits. Thats a lot of gas and time, but I was determined to find a place where there werent fresh tracks or other bear baiters close by. After a 2 day quite frustrating adventure I thought I had finally found some room away from others only to discover that I was in another baiters area right as the getting started getting good, but he didn't post his permit on the main trails so we ended up in an uncomfortable situation. The other thing to think about is many guys dont put their baits very far off the beaten path and the idea of driving say 5 miles further than so and so's bait to get where no one else is puts you driving right through others baits while they might be in stand. So in conclusion all I can say is guys need to work together, not get so hostile about stuff and realize too, that the closer you are to town or the more developed the trail is you use for access, the more likely you are to have company. There was a time when I would drive 180 miles by truck and then ride 30 miles on a wheeler to set up a bear bait and spend 100 gallons of gas getting there and back each trip but after you kill enough bears and its just becomes a past time for spring fun theres just no need to crazy with it. Theres no excuse for unethical beahvior such as putting up a stand within a couple hundred yards of a known bear bait station, but if your launching off a main road on a well visible trail anywere within 100miles of Fairbanks, expect company. Make of it what you will!

  6. #6
    Member fullkurl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMike View Post
    Question about Bear Bait Ethics;

    I know that there is no written rule about putting a stand near other hunters. We have all heard about it, seen it ourselves, and/or are going through it now.

    My issue is this. I have an established stand. Was passed down from other hunters directly to me. So I kind of feel like it's my small piece of the earth if you know what I'm saying.

    With that being said, I got a late start this year actually putting out bait. I always register on or around the 15th just put out bait late. Mostly due to weather. I just seen another Permit about 200 yards from my stand the other day. I am not sure if the party has a different stand or they think that mine is "unoccupied".

    Is is ethicly correct or acceptable for another hunter to stumble upon a stand that was built and maintained by your own hard work, and one that they think is not being used and simply slap a permit up and hunt it? I suppose that it would be easier for someone to find a stand already built. Hell lets be honest, it was hard to build those stands.

    To me, I would honestly be frieghtened almost to hunt on some one elses stand. I like to think that I respect others enough to know that someone else has claimed that area and it should be left that way.

    I know there are plenty of abandoned stands out there. Maybe they should watch it for a year and see if no one comes back to it and then take it over.

    To summarize, someone has a permit about 200 yards uphill from my stand and I think that they think that my stand is abondoned and might plan to hunt it. Maybe they did not see my Permit. I'm not sure. I have taken the effort to make sure the Permit is now Flat on a piece of wood in plain view for all to see. I have even placed it basically on the stand as sad as that is to show that at least those few feet of earth is my hunting area. I simply do not want to have an issue with other hunters who love the outdoors as much as I do.

    Old Murphy Dome Road is my location.

    Fella's any thoughts on this one???

    Mike,
    Sounds like in this case you were late getting out there. Like you said, how is anyone to know if a stand is active or not? It seems like the early bird gets (got) the worm.
    I donno.
    The whole thing is a mess and needs regulated better. Too many guys are lazy and unethical.
    I really like my wheeler, but if atv's were banned for use with bait stations and the 1/4 mile rule was enforced it would definitely change things! The slob hunters would stay home and drink their beer....

  7. #7

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    Mike, if you didn't put any bait out but did post a sign showing you were baiting it then they are wrong and should pack up their stuff and leave. That's the same area I use to bait years ago and know how easily bait sites can be found. Post a sign on the trail going in letting them know that they are on your bait. Try and be civil about it, it could be an honest mistake. If I were to drive a ways down a trail to put in a bait and didn't see any sign or activity after the season had started, I would put a bait in but if someone had a sign posted then obviously I would leave the area. I know of at least 5 spots off that road that lead to good baiting areas but i'm sure there are probably a lot more than that these days.

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    Yeah Fellas good points indeed. My sign was poorly posted. I have since adjusted on that and moved it closer. I may put another one further up the trail, possibly at the head. I wonder though when they registered and is it possible that they posted the sign some time ago, and just decided not to hunt.

    I am certainly willing to work this out. No harm no foul. I currently have a posted sign and bait out, and I am worried that those folks are going to come out there with bait etc... and are dissapointed to see that it's baited already.

    I will leave a note on thier Permit, with my number and name and hopefully if they return we can figure this out.

    Thanks again for the replys,

  9. #9
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    Default Tough question

    If they knew your stand was there, knew you used it last year. Then they probably should be farther away. Problem with old stands is no one knows what is going on with them. Maybe last year you did not bait and they saw that. How many years should they wait to see if you return?

    Your permit needs to be visible from your bait. There is no regulation stating that you can not have more signs, along the trail or near the bait.

    If someone intentionally placed a bait along the same trail, that you made, maybe 100 yards farther in, it could be considered hunter harassment as they are interfering with your right to hunt by walking past your stand.

    You took the right recourse, leaving a note. Hopefully things work out.

    I am lucky, no place for anyone to anchor a boat near me.

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    Like GITDEMBARS said you have to remove all equipment from the field at the end the season. I was told by a F&G officer that this included stands. So if you are leaving your stand up all year are you breaking the law?

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    same problem with me. I drive a great deal out of town and I hear that since a couple of guys i know move to within a 1/2 to a 1 mile of my stand because they know bear have been taken off of it. they want to increase their luck. sad part is i am being allowed to hunt on this stand by the guy who originally built it.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by akdd View Post
    Like GITDEMBARS said you have to remove all equipment from the field at the end the season. I was told by a F&G officer that this included stands. So if you are leaving your stand up all year are you breaking the law?
    Unless you are planning on using it for "moose". Thats what they told me

  13. #13
    Member Stogey's Avatar
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    Question Quarter Mile/Ethics

    Quarter mile... if the stations are 1/4 mile apart. Is there even a dilema?
    Bears don't care... eat some of your food... eat some of other guys food. Lotsa food.
    I haven't had a bear stay on my station much more than an hour.
    I seriously doubt they are full. Just time to move on. Probably to the station that is down the road.

    I'm a bit confused on this being an ethics violation.

    Public Land / Check
    No permit / Check

    The only way one should know that this station has been used in the past is because someone had left gear on public property.
    Which is outside the ethics discussion, and into a F&G violation.

    I was walking through the woods one day. Came across a cabin... in rough shape... roof had some holes... probably built for mining some years ago. Went home... looked the area up to see if it was public or private property. GPS data/internet all indicated it was public land.
    Was I trespassing?
    I didn't enter the cabin.
    When I saw it... I left.

  14. #14

    Default Bear Stands and State land

    "No law exists that says "you can't put your own bearbait sign up year round". I leave my name and phone number on my stand year round. No-one has called yet."

    Leaving the sign out year round is probably okay, but not leaving your stand out year round. According to the Department of Natural Resources Generally Allowed Uses on State Land (11 AAC 96.020):

    "Other improvements or structures on State land:

    Setting up and using a camp for personal, noncommercial recreational purposes, or for any non-recreational purposes for no more than 14 days at one site, using a tent platform or other temporary structure that can readily be dismantled and removed. Moving the entire camp at least two miles starts a new 14-day period. Cabins or other permanent improvements are not allowed, even if they are on skids or other non-permanaent foundation. The camp must be removed immediately if the department determines that it interferes with public access or other public uses or interests."

    A bait station stand or any kind of hunting stand for that matter would be considered a structure by DNR and would be allowed for a maximum of 14 days. Then it has to be moved 2 miles. Obviously this doesn't jive for bear bait stations which are established for an entire bear season, so I don't believe anyone is breaking the spirit of the law by establishing a stand for the season, but that stand must be removed each year. Even ADFG regs state all equipment related to bear baiting must be removed at the end of the season.

    DNR isn't actively prowling the woods searching for hunting stands during the off-season, but occasionally they do get found and those sites could be placed in trespass and removed by the state.

    BTW- The 14 day rule also applies to hunting camps, so folks who go into an area and establish camps for an entire 30 day season for example are technically illegal as well. This keeps parties from monopolizing an area.

    These are the rules for state land, other landowners such as BLM, Forest Service, etc. have similar rules.
    Last edited by Fullcurl; 05-14-2008 at 13:04. Reason: punctuation

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    Lightbulb reality

    i apologize in advance for putting ethics aside, but this is the deal. there are lots of stands all over the interior left up all year every year. only adf$g knows where they mostly are and to whom they belong. they could go cite every one of them, but due to alway spent revenue and preoccupied manpower that won't happen. also, there are many people who have built multiple stands over the years and don't hunt them b/c of low success or they moved, or plenty of other reasons. another fact is there are more and more baiters stepping on each other every year. some are innocent and some are not.
    one solution would be legally assigning square area around your bait during bait season. some hunts in the lower 48 assign permanent blind areas very successfully. a better slant on this would be to have adf$g mark an agreed upon circle around your registered bait area...no one can set up within that area. on the line is ok. it would take adg$g a little more work realistically and they'll no doubt bawl about it. but sooner or later someone is going to take matters in to their own hands and do something they'll regret. many hunters are already experiencing a ruined opportunity after thinking they were in a good spot. with this registration, everyone would have their own spot. yes i realize registration day would look like a rolling stones concert coming to town but registration could probably be fairly divided up somehow and even ease the burden on adf$g simultaneously. whaddya think folks?

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    We don't bait in Montana...

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    Member martentrapper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fullkurl View Post

    The whole thing is a mess and needs regulated better. Too many guys are lazy and unethical.
    I really like my wheeler, but if atv's were banned for use with bait stations and the 1/4 mile rule was enforced it would definitely change things! The slob hunters would stay home and drink their beer....
    What a statement from a moderator. Better regulated??????? You bet, Frank. More regulation so the "bad" hunters won't be bad. That's a crock. We have enough hunting regulations. Every Tom, Dick, and Harry that whines and cries wants more regulation......in other words, he wants the govt to solve his problem. No thanks.
    I can see why you moved to a place with way more regulation than here. :-(
    I can't help being a lazy, dumb, weekend warrior.......I have a JOB!
    I have less friends now!!

  18. #18
    Member Stogey's Avatar
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    Default .25 mile circle

    Google Earth, MapSource, MacTopo, Nat. Geographic - etc. ad nauseum.

    Mapping software.
    Programs that are capable of punching in a set of coordinates... then setting a perimeter at xx distance, in this case .25 miles.

    Save a mapset on a network connection.
    Share this map across all F&G networks.

    All technicians punch bait registration (Hunter Name, Long/Lat, Permit #, Bait Education #, Bow Hunt #, License #, date of registration, etc.) into the software. Establish .25 mile radius.

    Make this the new official ADF&G record of the 20XX season for bear baiting.

    Now, the beauty of it:

    If your center point falls inside the 'ring' of another station, you'll be disapproved (the other guy/gal registered before you).

    Wasn't this the purpose of the old 'pin in the map' from years past?
    Of course, many intentionally mis-marked their site.

    Anyway - that only fixes the legal issues with "where can I bait?"

    I don't know what to say about the 'ethics' in question.

  19. #19
    Member fullkurl's Avatar
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    Default pot...kettle...black.....

    Quote Originally Posted by martentrapper View Post
    What a statement from a moderator. Better regulated??????? You bet, Frank. More regulation so the "bad" hunters won't be bad. That's a crock. We have enough hunting regulations. Every Tom, Dick, and Harry that whines and cries wants more regulation......in other words, he wants the govt to solve his problem. No thanks.
    I can see why you moved to a place with way more regulation than here. :-(

    Horrors! A moderator advocates better record keeping and a better, more ethical system for baiters, say it ain't so! Fire him and then kill him..and then fire him again!

    Sheesh, did someone pee in your kool-aid, Mike?

    You left off the part where I said, "I donno"....
    In other words, I don't have the answers. Maybe more regulation is the answer, maybe that's the last thing we need. Stogey put forth a great post, read it.

    But the facts are that fellas are sick and tired of guys plopping down next to their active stands and others squatting on their stands. Haven't you read the myriad of postings referring to these problems? What do you suggest, gunfights in the woods?
    The hunters I know are good and ethical woodsmen, but obviously there a few stinkers out there or we wouldn't see all of these problems.
    If what we see on this forum is a microcosm of things afield, F&G and/or the troopers will get involved at some point.

    By the way, you know buptkiss about where I live, my friend, so please know the score before you comment.
    Fact is, things are far less chaotic, regulated and competitive for game here.
    That said, Alaska's rewards are almost always worth the trouble.

    And please leave the moderator crap out of it, too. I didn't know you held my "moderator" opinion in that high of regard. I feel so fortunate.


    Frank

  20. #20
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    I guess so this doesn't turn ugly, I should re-state my thoughts.

    Basically, as I see it, a fella not knowing "hopefully" registered a stand or at least an area qwhere he intends on putting one that only myself, the bears I've killed and ADF&G know is mine. When I say mine I only mean the small logs that I have as a platform in the tree and the area that I place my barrell.

    I guess at the end of the day, as a decent human being, I hope to continue my hunts in that area, and not to offend the other guy. Who knows, he could be a first time baiter, a Soldier with only one shot, or an old timer looking for something different.

    I reckon I just don't like it on my conciese that I don't want him to think I jumped in on his AO, when if fact I have been there the whole time. I suppose it's not so much of an ethical dilema, more a moral thing, and on the part of me not so much him.

    thanks guys

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