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Thread: 2-stroke Law Bias To Dipneting

  1. #1
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    Default 2-stroke Law Bias To Dipneting

    Fish & Game is Bias

    From the FACT SHEET of ALASKA DEPARTMENT OF NATURAL RESOURCES
    DIVISION of PARKS & RECREATION
    And FACT from ALASKA FISH & GAME.

    • The Kenai River Special Management Area
    Starts at mile 4 at the boundary marker one mile DOWN STREAM from the WARREN AMES BRIDGE and extends upstream to include both Skilak Lake and Kenai Lake.
    This area is under the NEW MOTOR & BOAT RGULATIONS.
    So you will not be able to dip salmon in that area below the WARREN AMES BRIDGE like you have in the past unless you compile the NEW REG. And that’s ok
    Because it covers every one no matter who you are.
    This New Law is all about the HYROCARBONS in the water from 2-stroke engine????

    NOW THIS IS WHAT PISSES ME OFF!!!!

    FACT from ALASKA FISH & GAME in SOLDTNA

    • In the Kenai River DOWN STRAM from mile 4 is the Unrestricted Area of the River. So YOU CAN RUN ANY OUTBOARD MOTOR YOU WHAT IN JULY.

    • UNLESS YOU ARE DIPNETING FOR SALMON THEN YOU HAVE TO USE A 4-STROKE MOTOR OR ( DFI ) IN JULY.

    • BUT YOU CAN RUN YOUR 2-STROKE MOTOR ALL DAY DOWN THERE IN JULY AS LONG AS YOU DO NOT DIPNET FOR SALMON.
    Apparently The 2 stroke motors only put put Hydrocarbons in the water when you use a DIP NET


  2. #2
    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Hey Harvey, Fish and Game doesn't make the laws. Before you start throwing out accusations of bias, perhaps you should learn something about our system of creating laws by the Board of Game process and through other regulatory bodies. I'm another dipnetter who will be displaced by the 2-stroke regulation, but I'm sure not going to lay the blame on Fish and Game.

  3. #3

    Default Unclear

    Harvey,

    I'm not clear on your beef. Above RM 4 you must use clean technology in July through 2013 regardless of your activity. ADNR can enforce this because the river is a state park. In 2013 the clean technology will be required year round in the park waters.

    Below RM 4 clean technology is required for dipnetting. The law is such because it is outside of the park and thus only ADFG has authority. Their authority essentially only covers the means and methods of harvest, including vessel and power type. There is no other harvest in the river below RM 4 that I'm aware of.

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    Brian I am just giving the Facts from there sheet and STATE OF ALSAKA FISHING REGULATIONS.

    This is about the HYROCARBON level in the water is to high for STATE and FED Standards.

    So there should be NO 2 stroke motors aloud in the unrestricted area of the KENAI RIVER at all in July.
    But that is not the case you can run your 2stork motor all day long in the unrestricted area of the KENAI RIVER July.

    Unrestricted area of the KENAI RIVER Page 48 of Fishing Reg.

    But you can not use your 2 stroke motor to dip net Page 18 of Fishing Reg.

    Iím sorry but if this is not being prejudice on 2 stroke motors what do you call it.

  5. #5
    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    I guess I was wrong - Chaos points out that ADF&G has the final authority on the lower river. I wasn't aware of that.

    As for "prejudice" against 2-stroke motors, well...they're the ones creating most of the problem. I've used one to dipnet up until last year, but I'll suck it up and deal with the loss of opportunity if it means a healthier habitat.

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    Chaos,
    My beef is that if my 2001, 2 Stroke motor is putting out Hydrocarbons in the water when dip netting.
    Then ALL 2 Stroke motors should be outlawed in July in that part of the Kenai River
    And not just to dip netting.

  7. #7

    Thumbs up agreed

    Gotcha - the goose and gander axiom.

    Based on what I've learned in recent times, I agree. The only folks I can think of that might still be using 2s this July are associated with the commercial fishing fleet. Such as those that ferry fisherman to and from the dock, a few setnetters and tenders that deliver in the river. They too should be required to use clean technology.

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    Brian,
    I agree about the clean water.
    But I do not agree with a law that is not FOR ALL 2 STROKE MOTORS in that same area of the river.
    You are aloud to use your 2 STROKE MOTOR in that area of the river all day long,
    As long as you donít dip salmon.

  9. #9

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    They did it for dipnetters for one reason- the ammount of people it draws.

    Im assuming youve been boat dipping beofore, 200 boats all lined up , kind of annoying having a 22 ft inboard blasting you jetting up the river

    I think theyre not only doing this because of hydrocarbons but because of the safety concerns caused by larger (2 stroke inboard) boats-

    It may seem unfair but in the long haul it will provide a safer enviornment and a healthier habitat, upgrading has to come eventually-

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    Default Board of Fish made the final decision

    Guys, This is the founder of the South-central alaska dipnetting association, Ken. The decision was actually made by the BOF last meeting. I argued that it should cover everyone, not only dipnetters but almost everyone in the meeting looked at me like I had two heads. Fish and game did have a proposal before the Bof to limit the hydrocarbons and the BOF voted in favor. Only in July can you not use those motors to fish. So if dipnetting gets extended by an emergency closure early in the season, where we can dip into August, we might squek by.Just don't count on it.
    We were putting hydrocarbons into the river and to save the resource and to say we are sacrificing for the good of the river, that is the price we paid. That is why I have been screaming for more people to get involved. Did you ever see that Kenai clarion article covering the City council meeting where a lawyer wants to sue to stop dipnetting, under the guise of habitat protection. He represents a few drifters and setnetters and processors. I never knew we dipnetted in the dunes? I always thought that the fish were in the river. If you want to know more, let me know. Ken 715-8363 (cell) Have a good one!!!

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    The BOF can only deal with methods and means of fishing, to my knowledge they do not have the authority to outright ban all 2-stroke use, as can be done in KRSMA. The proposal to ban 2-strokes in July was put in by Fish and Game, the City of Soldotna, City of Kenai, and the Kenai Peninsula Borough. It was passed overwhelmingly, if not unanimously by the Board of Fish.

    Nerka can back me up on this, but if I remember correctly the data with going way over on HC'c correlated with the dipnet fishery.

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    Angry Discrimination? or what

    Yukon, you are right, dipnetting was putting HC's into the river. What Harvey is talking about is it right to ban only one group of users? So if I don't dipnet, I can run circles around the boats that are all day long and still not be illegal. That makes a whole lotta sense. Not.
    I argued at the BOF that all user groups should be limited from the two stroke, this way a lawsuit would not be likely. As it stands, a lawsuit has merits. Such is life!!!

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    My point is the BOF does not have the authority to ban all 2-stroke users, they can only regulate fishing, including dipnetting.

    I am not sure if they banned rod and reel fishing from 2-strokes in the dipnetting area. To my knowledge there isn't much if any rod and reel fishing, but they should have included that as well.

    So, by banning dipnetting from 2-strokes, the essentially banned (within their authority) 2-strokes alltogether. I am not aware of any significant use of 2-strokes otherwise. The only use that I can think of is ferrying commercial fishermen to their boats, but I wouldn't consider that significant.

  14. #14

    Default tough row to hoe

    Thewhop,

    http://www.pointoflaw.com/columns/archives/004140.php

    Sue AK and lose, you pay your attorney fee AND theirs!

    sorry to be the messenger, but I don't think your postulation has merit and it could be an expensive lesson.

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    My Constitutional Rights are going to be violated. It needs to fit ALL at the same time so letís not twist the law to fit some boats and not others.

    Iím all for this clean water
    This New Law is all about the HYDROCARBONS in the water from 2-stroke engine????
    So donít let 1 or 5 or 10 boats with 2 stroke motors run in same area of the River no matter what they are doing

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harvey Friedricks View Post
    My Constitutional Rights are going to be violated. It needs to fit ALL at the same time so letís not twist the law to fit some boats and not others.
    Which Constitutional right would that be?

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    Quote Originally Posted by thewhop2000 View Post
    So if I don't dipnet, I can run circles around the boats that are all day long and still not be illegal. That makes a whole lotta sense. Not.
    It seems to make sense to me. First of all, 98% of the 2-strokes in the lower river in late July are there dipnetting. Ban those users (including me), and you fix the problem. Second, as yukon has already pointed out, the BoF only has the jursidiction to regulate consumptive use. They can't do anything about other uses in that stretch of water.

    Makes perfect sense. As for me, I'll likely be dipping the beach this year, if at all. I'm OK with that.

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    I can`t go now i look and i cant afford the GAS

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harvey Friedricks View Post
    I can`t go now i look and i cant afford the GAS
    Good news: 4-strokes use less fuel, and dipping from the beach doesn't use any!

    Of course, one still has to drive to Kenai, but that's what friends and carpools are for.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M View Post
    Originally Posted by Harvey Friedricks
    My Constitutional Rights are going to be violated. It needs to fit ALL at the same time so letís not twist the law to fit some boats and not others.
    Which Constitutional right would that be?
    Equal protections come to mind...........

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