Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 37

Thread: Kenai River hydrocarbon sampling 2008

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    5,518

    Default Kenai River hydrocarbon sampling 2008

    I was at a habitat meeting today for the Kenai River Special Advisory Board and was informed that DEC is planning to sample hydrocarbons only at RM 10 in 2008 and only for one weekend and Tuesday around 20 July.

    They are not going to sample below the PU fishery or at the bridge.

    If this is true DEC is being totally irresponsible relative to protecting the Kenai River. The rationale is that they can sample at RM10 and if the levels are below the standard they can remove RM 10-20 from the impaired river status and leave the lower river in impaired status.

    Why would an agency do this? Is it not in everyone's interest to know what the recent regulations have done? For example, not sampling at RM 5 or 1.5 does not allow one to evaluate the upriver DNR regulations from the BOF downstream regulations. What is the recent regulations are not working - would not a resource agency want to know that? Maybe the anti- Pebble mine people are correct - the State of Alaska is incapable of protecting the public or the resources of this state.

    I want to urge all user groups to write to the Gov and complain about this sampling approach - the future of the Kenai River depends on clean water and we should know from sampling that the river is clean - not some press release made up by DEC.

    Also, sampling at RM 10 only is above the present chinook salmon fishery and therefore not a representative sample of what is happening in the river. This just makes no sense unless one just does not want to know.

    Cost cannot be a factor since we are talking a small amount of money and DEC should have budgeted it in their request for 2008 funds.

    anyway thought you should know what is happening. This is a point where KRSA, KAFC, KPGA, UCIDA, KPFA, and other groups can unite. Lets do it for the river.

  2. #2
    Member willphish4food's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Willow, AK
    Posts
    3,355

    Default

    Leaving restrictions on the entire lower river motor usage based on sampling at one spot on one weekend... what kind of picture does that paint? Brilliant!

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    3,073

    Default

    What testing will Kenai Watershed Forum be doing this summer and will their testing be used for DEC purposes?

    I am shocked DEC would only test at one point, is this part of a longer range plan to test the lower sections as well?

  4. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    2,883

    Default Crazy

    That's crazy. 2008 sampling should be congruent and consistent with prior methods. Otherwise we have no idea what effects changing the outboard regulations have.

    DEC won't ever be able to remove the Kenai River from impared status without testing below RM 10 and the PU fishery...that's the part of the river that gets used the most and accumulates the most hydrocarbons.

    I think DEC realizes, even with the new 4-stroke regulations, that the potential for hydrocarbon limits to remain exceeded in July is likely. They probably realize that the new increase in horsepower will bring out more, bigger, boats and all prior 35 hp 4-strokes will be burning more fuel at 50 hp. Things that all contribute to more hydrocarbons.

    This appears to be a "bury our heads in the sand" approach by DEC because they know the "more is better" mentality they have taken will not prove itself.

    I wonder what the Kenai Watershed Forum (who initiated this impared status concern) and the municipalities like Kenai will have to say about this? Nerka is correct that we all need to come together on this and see that adequate testing is done...even if we have to hire an independent group to do it.

  5. #5
    Mark
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerka View Post
    I was at a habitat meeting today for the Kenai River Special Advisory Board and was informed that DEC is planning to sample hydrocarbons only at RM 10 in 2008 and only for one weekend and Tuesday around 20 July.

    They are not going to sample below the PU fishery or at the bridge........
    Thank you for the prompt notification of this situation, Nerka.

    .....If this is true DEC is being totally irresponsible relative to protecting the Kenai River. The rationale is that they can sample at RM10 and if the levels are below the standard they can remove RM 10-20 from the impaired river status and leave the lower river in impaired status.

    Why would an agency do this? Is it not in everyone's interest to know what the recent regulations have done?....
    I agree 100%. Testing should be conducted at all points where testing occurred before in order to establish any changes whatsoever. Basic scientific protocol demands it.

    But, like has been pointed out exhaustively by many, this isn't about science.

    It's politics as usual...........

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    3,073

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerka View Post
    I was at a habitat meeting today for the Kenai River Special Advisory Board

    .
    You were at the meeting? Or did KAFC have a representative there and you got the information from that individual?

    Are you 100% sure that DEC will only test at this one spot a couple days?

    To me it doesn't seem rational that DEC would do that, I just want to make sure there wasn't miscommunication somewhere before comments get started.

  7. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    5,518

    Default answer for Yukon

    Quote Originally Posted by yukon View Post
    You were at the meeting? Or did KAFC have a representative there and you got the information from that individual?

    Are you 100% sure that DEC will only test at this one spot a couple days?

    To me it doesn't seem rational that DEC would do that, I just want to make sure there wasn't miscommunication somewhere before comments get started.
    I was at the habitat committee meeting and this was passed on by ADF&G representative and the Watershed director - it came from the DEC rep at on the KRSMA board.

    The Watershed forum is not sampling hydrocarbons because DEC gave the contract to the other firm Ossias (spelling?).

    I have not talked to the KAFC representative at the KRSMA meeting. I am following up on this but wanted to get out in front. The ADF&G representative said DEC had informed them of only one sampling site and they were trying to get two and that may be a problem.

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    215

    Default

    DEC did say that the tentative plan is to sample only at rm 10. Reason given that rm 10 was continously sampled (every two hours) during a Sat/Sun/Tue period last year while sampling below rm 10 was not as rigorous. Also, rm 10 did not exceed standards last year, so its likely won't exceed it this year and they could at least get the river above mile 10 downgraded to a category 3.

    It does appear that testing below rm 10 will require at least two summers without exceeding the standard before it can go to category 3.

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    3,073

    Default

    Thanks Nerka and aktally. I figured there was a little more to the story and DEC has a reason for their methods, they are scientists and have a job to do. Although I am surprised they wouldn't be doind more testing below RM10.

  10. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    5,518

    Default nothing to do with science

    Quote Originally Posted by yukon View Post
    Thanks Nerka and aktally. I figured there was a little more to the story and DEC has a reason for their methods, they are scientists and have a job to do. Although I am surprised they wouldn't be doind more testing below RM10.
    This has nothing to do with science. Science would dictate sampling at RM 5 and 1.5 to assess the value of the recently passed regualtions. Sciece would have sampling through -out the season to pick up any differences in flow conditions and other factors (like fishing closures).

    This is pure politics as far as I can see. DEC is saying it takes two years to get off the list so they will not try to start that process this year below RM 10. That means at least 3 more years of impaired water status below RM 10 and that assumes EPA buys the program above RM10, which I and others doubt. This is not about science or the the scientists in DEC. This is about political leadership and controling outcomes. Pure and simple.

  11. #11

    Default Par for the State?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grampyfishes View Post
    ...
    I wonder what the Kenai Watershed Forum (who initiated this impared status concern) and the municipalities like Kenai will have to say about this? Nerka is correct that we all need to come together on this and see that adequate testing is done...even if we have to hire an independent group to do it.
    I can believe it. What I wonder is who really wants to know what effect the regulations have and who doesn't. ADEC could be low on funding, but I doubt it. ADEC certainly had multiple opportunities to set aside money for this monitoring that they could have reasonably seen a need for. Probably would have helped if they would have done a public recovery plan like they are supposed to do when waters get listed as impaired.

    Does fish and game think this is a reasonable plan? Does ADNR? Does the average guide? Does the private angler?

    At the April KRSMA meeting KWF testified that any studies done this year should mirror as closely as possible the sampling of previous years. Specifically they encouraged the board to write a letter to ADEC to include sampling at at RM 5 and at RM 1.5 along with aerial boat counts, just like last year. Sampling at RM 10 alone with no boat counts will tell us almost nothing.

  12. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    5,518

    Default talked to KRSMA chairman

    The KRSMA board is sending a letter saying they want sampling at the two lower river sites, in addition to RM 10. He said DEC should hear from people on this and urged people to contact DEC. I would urge people to copy the Gov. office on any written correspondance.

    Thanks.

  13. #13
    Member thewhop2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Wasilla
    Posts
    2,366

    Angry DEC sampling and river Status compared to dipnetting

    As usual, only now are a lot of dipnetters coming to grips with the fact and the news that two-stroke motors are banned for dipnetting in July. It only took months for the news to leak out. This has got to be the best kept secret in years. In the past two weeks I have been inundated with people asking for clarification and an explanation on what transpired at the last BOF, concerning Two-stroke status. If what you guys are saying is true, I need more than DEC, Someone give me a contact point or person PLEASE!!!! I can generate over two hundred e-mails or phone calls so someone point me in the right direction. I'm just too **** busy to follow up myself.
    If we dipnetters are banned from 2 stroke in july, for the sake of the watershed, I want someone to test and release all information showing that what we sacraficed, did some good. That is the only way I can justify voting to agree to the two stroke ban to begin with. Mile 10 just does not cut it.

  14. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    soldotna
    Posts
    841

    Default

    Contact Jack Sinclair at Alaska State Parks or his office @ 262-5581 or the Kenai River Center @ 260-4882 for more information on times & areas of the two stoke ban on the Kenai River.

    My understanding of the regulation is "No two strokes in July in Kenai River Special Management Area". Below KRSMA (a little ways below Waren Ames Bridge) no dip netting out of a two stoke operated vessel during July on the Kenai River.
    Both sport fishing and dipnetting areas got pinched on this one. Report on commercial vessel is that they are not a contributing factor to hydrocarbons in the lower part of the Kenai River.

  15. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    5,518

    Default email the following

    Quote Originally Posted by thewhop2000 View Post
    As usual, only now are a lot of dipnetters coming to grips with the fact and the news that two-stroke motors are banned for dipnetting in July. It only took months for the news to leak out. This has got to be the best kept secret in years. In the past two weeks I have been inundated with people asking for clarification and an explanation on what transpired at the last BOF, concerning Two-stroke status. If what you guys are saying is true, I need more than DEC, Someone give me a contact point or person PLEASE!!!! I can generate over two hundred e-mails or phone calls so someone point me in the right direction. I'm just too **** busy to follow up myself.
    If we dipnetters are banned from 2 stroke in july, for the sake of the watershed, I want someone to test and release all information showing that what we sacraficed, did some good. That is the only way I can justify voting to agree to the two stroke ban to begin with. Mile 10 just does not cut it.

    Larry Hartig, ADEC Commissioner
    >>> Dan Easton, ADEC Deputy Commissioner
    >>> CC: Governor Sarah Palin

    You can get there email address from the State of Alaska web site.

  16. #16
    Mark
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerka View Post
    Originally Posted by thewhop2000
    .....If what you guys are saying is true, I need more than DEC, Someone give me a contact point or person PLEASE!!!! I can generate over two hundred e-mails or phone calls so someone point me in the right direction. I'm just too **** busy to follow up myself.....
    email the following:

    Larry Hartig, ADEC Commissioner
    >>> Dan Easton, ADEC Deputy Commissioner
    >>> CC: Governor Sarah Palin

    You can get there email address from the State of Alaska web site.
    The beautiful thing about email is the "forward" option, and the fact that you can still save them, forward them again and again, and even print them at your pleasure..........

  17. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Wasilla,AK
    Posts
    13

    Default

    RULE NOT THE SAME FOR ALL 2 STROKE MOTOR OWNERS OF THE SAME PART OF THE KENAIRIVER BELOW MILE 4

    Ok I will explain I am all for clean water in or river

    THIS IS ALL ABOUT CLAEN WATER AND THE HYDROCARBONS THAT THE 2STROKE MOTORS ARE PUTTING OUT IN THE WATER>>>

    Fish & Game said to me you can use your 2 Stroke motor in the same area of the Kenai River to sport Fish or do any thing else you want to.

    BUT YOU CAN NOT DIP NET WITH YOUR 2 STROKE MOTOR!!!!!!!!

    I can pollute all day long with my 2 stroke motor in July in the Kenai River below mile 4 as long as I donít dip net with it.

    It should be the same for everyone not just the dip netters!
    If you make 95 % of the people go buy a 4 stroke motor to clean up the water the make the other 5 % buy a 4 stroke motor to.

    If you are POLLUTEING it should not be pushed on to only one user group using the same 2 stroke motor.
    Letís not twist it.

    When the air quality in anchorage got bad enough to start IM testing they did not tell only the people that have jobs to get IM tests and that may have lowered the air quality enough.
    No they said every one had to get IM tested.



    Harvey Friedricks

  18. #18
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    3,073

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Harvey Friedricks View Post
    [

    When the air quality in anchorage got bad enough to start IM testing they did not tell only the people that have jobs to get IM tests and that may have lowered the air quality enough.
    No they said every one had to get IM tested.



    Harvey Friedricks
    New cars do not need to be IM'ed for 3 years and diesel's don't need IM's.

  19. #19
    New member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    268

    Default

    Funny....... when I pointed out that the AK limit for hydrocarbons is 10X more stringent than the next most stringent state (Oregon) ........ I was told that "DEC has the scientists, they are the "experts"

    now that DEC proposes to test at one location instead of 3 they're "a bunch of politicians"

    I still maintain that proclaiming that the sky is falling because hydrocarbon levels go above our super strict level for a few hours for a few days in the month of July is nonsense

    this is a limit which was intended to be applied to levels occuring 24x7x365.........and they are 10X more stringent than any other state in the union......

    fine by me........ I don't have a boat and motor for use on the Kenai, but it's a shame that hundreds if not thousands of people are being run off the river due to this totally fabricated "paper" problem

    but.............DEC is the expert...........well ......... except when they don't fall in lockstep with the "anti's".......... then they're politicians *lol*

    remember when I said "let the games begin"?

  20. #20
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    5,518

    Default AK Cheese off base

    Ak cheese - the decision is not being made by scientist in DEC they are being made by political appointments - Director and above. So your comments do not apply here. Also, we fought the 10x debate before and you failed to recognize that Alaska standards are set for Alaska waters based on data for Alaska.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •