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Thread: Just thinking

  1. #1

    Default Just thinking

    Some like 500,460,454,44,45 CAL for browns and some like spray.
    This may be silly but has anyone used a cut 12 ga auto with the 1 first shell being buck to blind him and then slugs after to close the deal?

    I see most all say you better be a dead eye and fast under pressure.I think the bear spray works for some but you can use 12ga as spray on the first shot right?...just thinking.
    Thanks to all.

  2. #2

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    My thinking that bad?

  3. #3
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    The recommendation I've heard several times is to alternate 00 buckshot and slugs. I don't think it's a bad idea at all.

  4. #4
    Member JOAT's Avatar
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    Default Forget the buckshot

    Actually, it's a terrible plan. The alternating ammo idea has been around for decades and only survives out of stubborn habit. 00 Buck is useless against a bear. It will hardly penetrate the skin. A charging blind bear is no different than a charging sighted bear. Sight is the least used sense for these critters and you're most likely going to be within arm's reach by the time you get to shoot. If you have to shoot, shoot to kill. That means hard slugs.

    Point 2... alternating ammo is a very bad idea as you will have no idea of what you're shooting. If you're in a self-defense situation, you will not remember how many shots you fired nor be able to keep track of what kind of ammo is coming up next. The only ammo change loading that is practical is a different first round with everything after that the same. General rule- fill the magazine up with slugs and keep any specialty ammo somewhere else (side saddle, belt pouch, pocket, etc). If you have some hazing ammo (crackers or bean bags) available and keep the magazine loaded 1 less than capacity, you can pick your first shot by putting that round into the magazine and running the action once. This gives you (and the bear) a chance before you go to lethal force if the distance allows and the bear is just in a curious mode, but it keeps those slugs immediately available.

    The final thought. Bear attacks usually give you no time. You don't have the luxery of trying to fire a 00 buck at his face before you bring in the lethal force. You're going to be lucky to get off 1, let alone 2 rounds. Better make the first one count. Instead of aiming at his face and having 9 tiny round lead pellets glancing off the front of his skull, wouldn't you rather punch a 3/4" diameter block of lead through that same spot?

    I know 2 guys who've been attacked. One didn't have enough time to even get his rifle raised up to firing level before he was mauled. He then shot the bear (as it chewed on his face) with six 44 Mag slugs to the side of the chest with the muzzle in contact with the bear. The other guy got off 1 shot with his rifle before the bear was on him. He's pretty sure he missed. He was lucky in that he had his dog with him and the dog attacked the bear, sacrificing itself for his master. The bear ran off and was never found. The dog didn't make it. The guy got a whole bunch of stitches on his leg.

    You don't have the time or ability to dink around with "theoretical" ammo combinations. You've got to be ready and able to deliver a killing shot right now.
    Winter is Coming...

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  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by JOAT View Post
    Actually, it's a terrible plan. The alternating ammo idea has been around for decades and only survives out of stubborn habit. 00 Buck is useless against a bear. It will hardly penetrate the skin. A charging blind bear is no different than a charging sighted bear. Sight is the least used sense for these critters and you're most likely going to be within arm's reach by the time you get to shoot. If you have to shoot, shoot to kill. That means hard slugs.

    Point 2... alternating ammo is a very bad idea as you will have no idea of what you're shooting. If you're in a self-defense situation, you will not remember how many shots you fired nor be able to keep track of what kind of ammo is coming up next. The only ammo change loading that is practical is a different first round with everything after that the same. General rule- fill the magazine up with slugs and keep any specialty ammo somewhere else (side saddle, belt pouch, pocket, etc). If you have some hazing ammo (crackers or bean bags) available and keep the magazine loaded 1 less than capacity, you can pick your first shot by putting that round into the magazine and running the action once. This gives you (and the bear) a chance before you go to lethal force if the distance allows and the bear is just in a curious mode, but it keeps those slugs immediately available.

    The final thought. Bear attacks usually give you no time. You don't have the luxery of trying to fire a 00 buck at his face before you bring in the lethal force. You're going to be lucky to get off 1, let alone 2 rounds. Better make the first one count. Instead of aiming at his face and having 9 tiny round lead pellets glancing off the front of his skull, wouldn't you rather punch a 3/4" diameter block of lead through that same spot?

    I know 2 guys who've been attacked. One didn't have enough time to even get his rifle raised up to firing level before he was mauled. He then shot the bear (as it chewed on his face) with six 44 Mag slugs to the side of the chest with the muzzle in contact with the bear. The other guy got off 1 shot with his rifle before the bear was on him. He's pretty sure he missed. He was lucky in that he had his dog with him and the dog attacked the bear, sacrificing itself for his master. The bear ran off and was never found. The dog didn't make it. The guy got a whole bunch of stitches on his leg.

    You don't have the time or ability to dink around with "theoretical" ammo combinations. You've got to be ready and able to deliver a killing shot right now.
    Thanks for your input.
    Just looking at something other than spray.

    I really like a 1911A but most say it wont do the job.

    What i dont understand is why?

  6. #6
    Member JOAT's Avatar
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    The problem with a 1911, or any other auto pistol, is the reliability of the gun. With all the moving parts on an auto, they are prone to malfunctions if you're in a wrestling match in the middle of the woods. If you're hand-to-paw combat, it will take but a single clump of hair or jacket rubbing the slide on the gun to turn it into your grave marker. A wheel gun cares little about stuff dragging on it, though you can still get something between an exposed hammer and the frame that will stop the gun. A hammerless DA will solve that. You've also got higher power ammo availability in a wheel gun than you can get with most autos.
    Winter is Coming...

    Go GeocacheAlaska!

  7. #7

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    I agree with Joat. In reference to his story of the bear attack, the advantage of a revolver is it can be used in close contact; it can be fired with the muzzle shoved against something, whereas an auto will probably have problems with this. Plus, revolvers are usually a lot more powerful than autos.

    The thing about thwarted maulings is that they happen fast and, by nature, in direct contact. I read a story in the Seattle Times (or the Seattle PI) a few years ago about a guy who killed a blackbear in his yard using a knife. The thing was sick & emaciated and probably attacked out of desperation. The man stabbed and dodged a few times, lost all perception of time, and then the bear died. It turns out the man had stabbed its jugular, and all he suffered for the attack was a ripped shirt. Lucky. He should've tried the lottery that day.

    There have been threads in various forums about gun/spray alternatives. I've read suggestions like screaming flares, flash-bang grenades, walking sticks, tazers, dinner bells... personally I doubt anything is as effective as avoidance & an understanding of bear behavior, with guns and spray used as last resorts. Both have a good track record.
    Tsimshian tribe, wolf clan, the house of Walsk.

  8. #8
    Moderator hunt_ak's Avatar
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    Doesn't the Benelli Super Black Eagle II have a button on the bottom of the slide where if depressed you can load a specialty cartridge (like a cracker or something as stated above) where you wouldn't have to fire a slug or empty the tube?

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