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Thread: Tier II question

  1. #1
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    Default Tier II question

    I thought last year the courts reversed the income level disqualification part due to discrimination and now this year I read in the application for points that if you have a family of 4 you can't have a adjusted gross income of more than $60,950 or you will recieve 0 points on that question now that to me sounds discriminatory and will be back in the courts because of it but someone correct me if i'm wrong. It doesen't reflect on me cause i have 5 but still wondering.

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    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Back to the income limit again, eh? And the merry-go-round keeps going...and going...and going.

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    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Do you have the 08-09 paper supplement, or are you looking at the one online? I just checked, and F&G's website still has last year's spring drawing and Tier II supplements posted.

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    I have mine in hand 08-09

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    Quote Originally Posted by 06tributeman View Post
    I thought last year the courts reversed the income level disqualification part due to discrimination and now this year I read in the application for points that if you have a family of 4 you can't have a adjusted gross income of more than $60,950 or you will recieve 0 points on that question now that to me sounds discriminatory and will be back in the courts because of it but someone correct me if i'm wrong. ......
    If I remember correctly, last year if you broke the income limit, you received 0 points on your entire application, not just on that question.

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    Last year it started out that if you exceeded the income limit you got zero on the entire application but after the original scoring the courts decided that they could only score you zero for that question. This resulted in re-scoring all of the applications just before the season.

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    Default rejected

    All I know is that last year my son and I had received one and then they yanked them back from us. I am a school teacher and the sole income winner in my family with 4 kids, (and a wife). (I'm poor) I don't really understand the Tier II rules. Is it true that someone in Anc. can get a Tier II permit for the Nelchina caribou herd if they say they have depended on the Nelchina caribou herd for X # of years? I was super excited when we got the permit and then dissapointed when we got shot down a month later. So is it even worth my while to put in again, or am I just going to lose? I've lived in AK for 8 years and in Delta for 2.
    Last edited by goaty; 05-01-2008 at 12:38. Reason: new ?

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    Default To avoid an ulser

    I am not putting in this year. Instead I believe they should just shut the whole thing down altogether! Both State and federal.

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    goaty if the trueth were nown you probably have a better chance of getting one then some people because you live up there but as long as you don't exceed that income limit with a family of 4 I would for sure turn in the application if you do exceed it the only thing you will recive is a score of 0 for that question but as we all no the tier II is based on a points system and that might hurt your chances

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    Member Matt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goaty View Post
    All I know is that last year my son and I had received one and then they yanked them back from us. I am a school teacher and the sole income winner in my family with 4 kids, (and a wife). (I'm poor) I don't really understand the Tier II rules. Is it true that someone in Anc. can get a Tier II permit for the Nelchina caribou herd if they say they have depended on the Nelchina caribou herd for X # of years? I was super excited when we got the permit and then dissapointed when we got shot down a month later. So is it even worth my while to put in again, or am I just going to lose? I've lived in AK for 8 years and in Delta for 2.
    I was born up here, which means I've been in Alaska for 27 years (my entire life), and I have yet to EVER get a Tier II permit.

    In other words, you're wasting your time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    If I remember correctly, last year if you broke the income limit, you received 0 points on your entire application, not just on that question.
    Same for this year. You get a big fat O if you bust the $$$$$.... Then if there is permits remaining you are thrown into a pool with other people that score the same and it becomes a drawing know at random.
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    Mark
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaska Gray View Post
    Originally Posted by Mark
    If I remember correctly, last year if you broke the income limit, you received 0 points on your entire application, not just on that question.
    Same for this year. You get a big fat O if you bust the $$$$$.... Then if there is permits remaining you are thrown into a pool with other people that score the same and it becomes a drawing know at random.
    Nope. Not as I read it. I'm looking at the application form as I type.

    It states (bold, size, and caps exactly as on application):

    Questions 19 and 20 are ALSO SCORED, but only on applications for Unit 13 hunts. Answer questions 19 and 20 ONLY if you are applying for a Tier II Permit in Unit 13 (hunts TC566 and TM300): If you are applying for TC566 or TM300 and you do NOT answer these questions, you will receive the minimum score (0).
    If people get their entire application zeroed out again, I guess we go to court again.

    Some folks never learn. I guess that can hold true for the BOG, too.........

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    If people get their entire application zeroed out again, I guess we go to court again.

    Some folks never learn. I guess that can hold true for the BOG, too.........
    Mark The way I read it on the front of the Tier II Supplement is ( I typed this word for word from the supplement) Is you will score 0 no different from last year.

    19. ** Question 19 is used to determine the score awarded in Question 20. Only answer this question if you are applying for a unit 13 Tier II hunt. If questions 19 and/or 20 are not answered, or if your income exceeds the cutoff, the total score for the application will be 0.

    20. ** Up to 20 points are awarded. If you are applying for a Tier II hunt in unit 13 and do not answer questions 19 and 20, or if the household income exceeds the cutoff, the total score for this question will be 0, and the total score for the application will be 0. (example: A household of 4 or fewer members will receive 0 points on this question if the adjusted gross income (before deductions) of all household members exceeds $60,950.) The cutoff will be adjusted upward for larger households. If there are Tier II permits remaining, but a pool of applicants with the same score is too large to award all permits, a random drawing will be held to award the remaining permits.

  14. #14
    Mark
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    Quote Originally Posted by northriver21 View Post
    .....19. ** Question 19 is used to determine the score awarded in Question 20. Only answer this question if you are applying for a unit 13 Tier II hunt. If questions 19 and/or 20 are not answered, or if your income exceeds the cutoff, the total score for the application will be 0.
    Sounds like some folks at ADFG or the BOG have a really poor memory.

    ....20. ** Up to 20 points are awarded. If you are applying for a Tier II hunt in unit 13 and do not answer questions 19 and 20, or if the household income exceeds the cutoff, the total score for this question will be 0, and the total score for the application will be 0. (example: A household of 4 or fewer members will receive 0 points on this question if the adjusted gross income (before deductions) of all household members exceeds $60,950.) The cutoff will be adjusted upward for larger households. If there are Tier II permits remaining, but a pool of applicants with the same score is too large to award all permits, a random drawing will be held to award the remaining permits.
    Was there something about the court ruling last year that sunsetted or was set aside?

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    I just looked at mine again on the back of the sheet under scoring criteria for unit 13 hunts but is says if you do not answer these questions, you will recieve the minimum score for these questions(0) not the whole application. still sounds like discrimination to me and with a score of 0 for those 2 question will hurt your chances for sure. I was lucky enough to get my tier II last year (first time applying) didn't connect due to closing season early but still crossing my fingers again for this yr.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    I was born up here, which means I've been in Alaska for 27 years (my entire life), and I have yet to EVER get a Tier II permit.

    In other words, you're wasting your time.

    26 years here. I play on the denali alot. I got my first boo there in 1981 when it was a drawing permit deal. I go up every fall and of course I have never got a Tier 2 permit and I have had boo so close to me every year it is sick. Within 500 yards of the highway. My wife a life long resident 40+ years cant get one either. I dont think it is even worth the time to apply since we do have jobs also.
    Grandkids, Making big tough guys hearts melt at first sight

  17. #17
    Member northriver21's Avatar
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    Default Would you agree?

    What Mark quoted from the actual permit application is correct. What I quoted was from the permit supplement. They are somewhat condradictory.

  18. #18
    Mark
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    Quote Originally Posted by northriver21 View Post
    What Mark quoted from the actual permit application is correct. What I quoted was from the permit supplement. They are somewhat condradictory.
    I suspect an editing oversight in the new supplement.

  19. #19
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    my info came from right off the paper application itself

  20. #20
    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    For those that say they're not going to even bother applying, understand that a year applying (even if you don't win) counts as a year of using the Nelchina caribou resource. Even if you don't win for the next 10 years, you may as well keep applying and building up the years. You never know when they'll change the rules in your favor. It's like a game of Calvinball where you make up the rules as you go. Maybe someday it'll work out for you if you stay dilligent on the applications. Heck, the rules can even change after the apps have been submitted, as we saw last year. As for me, I always wait until after my May birthday to submit my Tier II application, as that gives me one more year.

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