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Thread: Copper Fouling in Barrel

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    Member akrstabout's Avatar
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    Default Copper Fouling in Barrel

    I have recently acquired a .375 ruger. So far it has a total of 34 rounds down the tube. I was told it was broke in correctly and cleaned after every shot and then every couple. I personally put 19 rounds through and a buddy put 2. At the range I cleaned mid session or so. When I got the rifle I noticed the rifleling looked copperish. Well today I tried to clean it using Hoppe's Elite copper, lead and carbon fouling bbl cleaner until the patches came out white. Then used Hoppe's Elite Copper cleaner, really thick stuff. The patches come out greenish. Let soak for 10 minutes 3 different sets, following the direction inbetween. Then still copper fouling can be seen so cleaned with the Hoppe's Elite general cleaner and patches come out clean. So I am unsure what to do. Never had this problem before. Directions say just to let sit for 5 to 10 minutes, with out getting on any finishes and such and only for inside barrel use only.

    Is it okay to let the Hoppe's Elite Copper cleaner sit in the bbl for a day? What else to use or do? Does copper fouling hurt anything, actually on the lans, some in the grooves. Accuracy is good. Just not sure what to do or how to go about getting the copper fouling out. Thanks for any help any of you can offer.
    Last edited by akrstabout; 04-29-2008 at 22:55. Reason: spelling

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    Member akrstabout's Avatar
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    Default Read Stids thread on bore scope

    People refer to Wipe Out and how easy it made copper fouling cleaning easy. Is that stuff at SW? What is a bbl plug exactly, anything just to plug it? Again is it even a big deal to have the copper fouling in the bbl on the lans? Why did the ruger bbl foul up with only 34 total rounds?

    The .300wm is 12 years old, no fouling or anything, a nice plain stainless bbl. Only used Outers products that come with the cleaning kit. Plus not shooter, only sight in and check now and then how ever many rounds I fired in a year hunting. Are the ruger hawkeye bbls that rough now days? I thought they are hammer forged?

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    Wipe Out is the schiznit. Its at SW. Cr-10 is also good, but not as fast, and the amonia really cleans out your sinus. A little copper wont hurt your rifle, but a good idea to get the bore clean before heading into a salt water enviroment.

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    Member akrstabout's Avatar
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    Default So that is why the Hoppe's

    Elite Copper Ternimator is not working as good? No amonia, plus bio gradable. Well never thought about the saltwater man, I guess that would not be good, bbls ends up looking like the statue of liberty after bear hunting Guess I will make another trip to SW.

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    Default

    Take a look at my reply to Miller on his thread for 30-06 (I'm being lazy and don't want to repeat it here, but I think it applies to your situation as well).

    Another cleaning technique that I've mentioned in the past (and I repeat here) is using a 50/50 mixture of Hoppe's#9 and Kroil penetrating oil. In fact, my standard cleaning procedure after a range session is a quick cleaning with Butche's Boreshine to get the major gunk out. Wipe the bore, chamber and muzzle completely dry of any Butche's, then run a soaked patch of the #9/Kroil mixture. Stand the rifle in the corner on some paper towels (muzzle down) over nite...mixture will bleed-out leaving a green ring on the paper towel. Bore punch in the morning, repeat. Bore punch before bed, repeat if necessary. It really isn't any work at all. The #9/Kroil does all the work while I'm sleeping or at work. The patch comes out green as it dissolves the copper.

    I very seldom use a brush and my rifle bores are pretty smooth from proper break-in, so what I described above usually gets the job done in two or three applications. If not, then I'll use Wipe-out (described in Miller's thread).

  6. #6

    Default Fouling

    I would be less concerned about removing the fouling than what caused the fouling. Fouling is removeable but why go through the trouble time after time.
    Is it the bullet composition or the barrell that is causing the problem? OR a combination?
    Not familiar with the 375 Ruger or available ammo.
    " Americans will never need the 2nd Amendment, until the government tries to take it away."

    On the road of life..... Pot holes keep things interesting !

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    It is a heavy jacketed bullet so some fouling occurs as long as it does not affect the accuracy, I would not worry about it.

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    I have looked down some factory rifles with my bore scope. I found that many factory rifles have some rough barrels, this grabs copper from the first few rounds fired. If this fouling is not removed, it keeps grabbing more copper every time you fire another round. Breaking in a barrel is like seasoning a cast iron skillet, since factory barrels are not lapped they are not as smooth as custom barrels. IMHO it is important to season the barrel this will help prevent fouling. When you think it is clean take it and look into the barrel with a bore scope. Might help to have a peak anyway and see what is going on in there.

    Happy Shooting

    Steve

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    Here is the link to all the gun cleaning products you will ever need.

    http://www.frfrogspad.com/homemade.htm

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    Member akrstabout's Avatar
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    Default only 270 grn hornady ammo has been fired

    through this gun. Will try the Wipe Out tonight or tomorrow morning and then clean it tomorrow night. So will this problem continue or will fix it self after a good cleaning and few more rounds down range? I noticed the fouling when I got the gun. Only a little more than half a box through by then with his proper break in procedure. We have always done 3 shots and clean for the first box and then break in was over. Never had a problem before like this.

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    Member marshall's Avatar
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    I just ran 20 rounds through my R375 Alaskan this past Monday. I followed instructions from a buddy' customs Shilen barrel break in procedure.

    Five shots with a cleaning after each shot. Three five shot groups with a cleaning after each. According to the paper I read the break in is complete after 40 rounds, I'll finish it off this weekend with four more five shot groups.

    There was very little copper fouling noted on the first few patch's. Evidently when you clean after each of the first few shots you get the copper out where ever it may try to build and the subsequent shots smooth out the area.

    Accuracy was very good, 1.5 inch groups at 200yards. I was quite surprised since I have read some smack about that rifle. Needless to say I'm pleased and looking forward to working up some of my own loads.

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    First off, you'll be happy with the Wipeout. I use a chamber guide and put a ziplock bag over the muzzle to catch the excess. Shoot the stuff in and let it sit overnight. I rotate the gun letting it sit on one side then the other every couple hours and then I go to bed. The Wipeout tends to run to one side of the barrel due to gravity so rotating it seems to clean a little better. I usually end up applying two applications before all the copper is gone.

    Will your fouling diminish? Probably, I've been cleaning all the copper out of my barrels for many years and they still foul. The reality is I don't hunt with a barrel totally free of copper. I usually fire a fouling shot and one 3 shot group to verify my zero before going hunting.

    The question is how many rounds do you have to fire before your accuracy suffers? Some people get worried their barrels are fouled and won't shoot well. Mine can easily shoot 12 rounds or more before I would be concerned. If yours is like mine you'll have no accuracy problems. Clean it free of copper, fire a fouling shot, shoot a group to verify zero and go hunting. I usually do this at the start of hunting season and don't clean all the copper out of the barrel until I'm done hunting for the year. Of course I do clean out all the copper between practice sessions during the summer. Leavin a little copper in your barrel won't hurt anything but never cleaning it certainly won't help your accuracy.

  13. #13

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall View Post
    I just ran 20 rounds through my R375 Alaskan this past Monday. I followed instructions from a buddy' customs Shilen barrel break in procedure.

    Five shots with a cleaning after each shot. Three five shot groups with a cleaning after each. According to the paper I read the break in is complete after 40 rounds, I'll finish it off this weekend with four more five shot groups.

    There was very little copper fouling noted on the first few patch's. Evidently when you clean after each of the first few shots you get the copper out where ever it may try to build and the subsequent shots smooth out the area.

    Accuracy was very good, 1.5 inch groups at 200yards. I was quite surprised since I have read some smack about that rifle. Needless to say I'm pleased and looking forward to working up some of my own loads.
    Followed pretty much the same progedure breaking in a Kimber barrel except for moving to five round intervals on the second stage. I was surprised to see the rate of copper buildup drasticly reduce after the third five round interval. I will continue to clean all copper out with Sweets after each trip to the range or hunting until buildup is barely noticable.
    In regards to the 375, I have read that the 338 tends to foul quicker than smaller calibers. Is this characteristic of the larger calibers?

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    Member akrstabout's Avatar
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    Default Montana Grizzly Copper Killer

    Is what I picked up at SW. Of course they were out of the WipeOut. This new stuff is working pretty good. I have not let it sit for more than 2 hours, doesn't say anything on the bottle about soaking, not soaking. But whoa nasty smelling stuff though. I did notice a change in copper fouling just by looking down the bbl from the muzzle. After the 3rd time the bottom of the bbl is almost free of copper. Will try Rotating the gun tonight. Just afraid to let it soak all day with that stuff. Thanks for the info guys. Next time I will pay more attention when buying a used gun.

    Anyone want to try out a .375ruger this weekend, if the weather is not good to hit whittier might go to the range. So far now saturday looks the nastiest for Whittier.

  15. #15

    Default Ammonia

    All of those gimmick products are expensive. Those folks that make those products are the same people that write all the over- exeggerate woes of copper fouling, etc.... Ever wonder why rifle manufacturers or the military do not go to such extremes or worry about those imagined problems?

    Ammonia is the best copper cleaner and is $ 1.59 for a half gallon at Carrs. Man up to the smell and use it outside. Do not use a copper brush, use stainless(and don't listen to crap that it will wear your barrel out). Now, go buy a 6 pack of premium beer with the $10 that you just saved.

    Additionally, a while back there was a study with many test results on the web concerning the best protection for your rifle. Many, many products were tested The best and second best products were neck and neck with each other but well ahead of all others. The #1 product was some new stuff that's name starts with a Z. It barely beat good old inexpensive, time-tested CLP (cleaner lubricant protectant), often called break-free. Our military and several other nations use it on billions worth of rifles. During a military career, I never heard armorers complain of fouling, etc... Those rifles are used and practiced with much more than ones in our lockers. Save your money and use it for gas to go to the range or hunting, and take a kid.

  16. #16
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    Default The Montana Grizzly Copper Killer

    Worked! Last little bit by the muzzle was all that was left after last nights soaking when I got off work. Then before I went to bed I put a over size q-tip soaked in the muzzle and covered with electrical tape and put a patch in the breech end. In the morning the stubborn last little wiped out with one clean dry patch. Sent another soaked patch and scrubbed the bore just to make sure and came out clean. She is good to go. Probably would have came out the first day if I let the stuff soak over night, just didn't trust it. I imagine the Hoppe's Elite Copper Terminator might have cleaned it all out if I let it soak. That stuff if orderless and almost like gel, again didn't really trust but I think it will be fine. Now at the range I will keep a good eye on this problem. It was very bad copper fouling, I mean really bad. But back to a fresh a start now. Thanks for all the tips.

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    Default Fouling

    I like Barnes CR-10. I was cleaning my bbl last night & took about 2.5 hrs to get'er done. Still some residue left but very minimal. I will be finishing up tonight.

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