Results 1 to 6 of 6

Thread: Rough and Smooth Bores - Question?

  1. #1

    Default Rough and Smooth Bores - Question?

    I know we had a thread on rifles having smooth and rough bores but I want to ask a few questions and maybe find some technical reasons for some events that happened to me. First let me say that I have been shooting for a long time now as well has hunting and developing loads for my rifles. Many of you know I spend a lot of time developing loads for my rifles and sharing the results. I have owned Remington, Savage, Ruger, Sako, Brown, Marlin, Winchester, Interarms, Weatherby and some others along with six custom rifles. On my Customs rifles I had the following barrels - 2 Douglas, 2 Shilen, 1 Lilja, and 1 Krieger. Now the factory rifles all but one I was able to accomplish Moa and some under MOA with hand-loads. Now all my customs shot 1/2" moa or under. Here is the question - "Some of my rifles had very smooth, some very rough barrels. Yet I was able to produce MOA groups out of all of them but one. Some of my rough barrels out shot smoother bores. Yet the tightest groups of under a 1/2" MOA were smooth bores except one custom barrel. Rougher bores did foul quicker but for all my hunting purposes they all were more than accurate for the task at hand. I had one custom that shot two groups at one tenth of an inch and nothing over .324" with it's favorite load. I assumed because it was shooting so well that the bore must be one smooth slick bore. Well when I put a bore scope down it and saw how rough it was I surely was surprised. I know there are a lot of variables that can impact a rifles accuracy from bedding to optics much less how smooth the barrel might be. Three things! 1. I wonder outside of competition how much difference there really is in practical terms between rough and smooth bores? 2. Does it bother you if your rifle is MOA accurate at 100yds whether are not your bore is rough? 3. I have seen some real rough bores shoot well as I have seen slick ones shoot ok, and although it's not to big a deal, I still wonder why this happens when logic tells you the smooth bore should always out shoot the rough bore?
    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
    THE MIND OF A SCHOLAR
    THE HEART OF A CHILD
    THE HIDE OF A RHINOCEROS

  2. #2

    Default

    Beartooth,I have been wondering the exact same thing.

    I have never looked down the tube on a Savage. Just never really felt the need. However last Sunday afternoon I went to the range with a friend. He bought one of those Savage model 11's in 22-250 and wanted to zero it in. Behind the seat in my truck rides one of those Stevens 200's in 223. It has bounced around back there most of the winter and once when putting it back behind the seat I dropped it on its head (scope). So I thought I would check zero on it. I also took along a Remington 40XB in 222 that I paid a grand for a million years ago. The part that really pisses me off is that both of those Savages shot circles around the triple duce! Both box stock Savages shooting cheap Winchester USA ammo went under a half inch. The XB with its favorite hand load went just shy of 3/4 of an inch. I went through all the pain in the butt rituals of breaking the XB in the "right" way. Yet the Stevens 223 didn't get that treatment, has had a thousand rounds put through it without cleaning and it still shoots !/2 inch groups!

    The bore in that 223 looks like H-e-double hockey sticks!

    It aint right I'm tellin ya...it just aint right!

    Its liken to the ugliest girl in school being the best dancer and the prettiest girl in school that can't dance a lick!.........who ya gonna dance with? Can we talk about dancing on here Murph? Smile! Its gun related dancing... kinda!

  3. #3

    Default

    There's a lot to accuracy in a barrel from how smooth the bore is but of course not all the time as you and I have mentioned. There are things like concentricity (how centered is the bore in the barrel) as well as how uniform depth/width of grooves, uniform height/width of lands, amount of lands/grooves. There is also how stress was relieved in the barrel after cutting the rifling, how the rifling was cut, how centered is the crown, how even is the leade-cut, these all have a bearing on how well the barrel prints. Savage does a great job with some of this stuff as does Weatherby and Sako/Tikka. I think to much is put on how smooth the bore is when it is only a part and sometimes not much of a part on how well the rifle shoots. It is like in one gun shop the owner has a bore scope and he puts down rifles that have rougher bores than others as though how smooth the bore is determines how well the rifle shoots. Problem is he has had a few very smooth bores come back with complaints that they were not real shooters. Yes, a lot of variables out there that can determine a shooter or not. With me if it is a shooter, I really don't care if the bore is rough.
    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
    THE MIND OF A SCHOLAR
    THE HEART OF A CHILD
    THE HIDE OF A RHINOCEROS

  4. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Yukon Canada
    Posts
    1,289

    Default shooters

    Beartooth i agree if i have a shooter thats all that matters. I dont own a borescope so dont know what some of my past rifles were like. My friend that has the scope has been collecting winchesters for 30 years now and he told me by and large the best shooters have had the best bores. I know the good bores dont fowl as bad. I always thought the savages shot well because of the way they headspace would like to look at some of the savage bores. My brother in law does a lot of competion long range shooting in MO. and he said off the shelf savages will shoot with the best of them! After all the trouble i went through last year to get my Ruger to shoot well (thanks to a lot of you here it now does at least with one load) then my wifes Tikka right from the box will shoot an inch with anything, and you can see it is quality throughout it is hard to buy americian. my dad used to tell us kids that it was just as easy to own a good horse as it was to own a bad one, I think for me its that way with guns anymore. I spend at least 6 months a year in the bush guideing and trapping so rely on my rifles. Last year I bought 3 a browning BLR, a Ruger 30/06 and Marlin guide gun. The Browning was junk, it took me almost a year to get the ruger to shoot well enough for hunting, and the cheapest of all the Marlin shot good right off. Just got a price on a Tikka 338 federal stainless 699 can. i have almost a thousand in my Ruger now, more if i counted all the ammo I used. so for me i will get the Tikka, hope its as good as the one I got my wife.

  5. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by yukon254 View Post
    Beartooth i agree if i have a shooter thats all that matters. I dont own a borescope so dont know what some of my past rifles were like. My friend that has the scope has been collecting winchesters for 30 years now and he told me by and large the best shooters have had the best bores. I know the good bores dont fowl as bad. I always thought the savages shot well because of the way they headspace would like to look at some of the savage bores. My brother in law does a lot of competion long range shooting in MO. and he said off the shelf savages will shoot with the best of them! After all the trouble i went through last year to get my Ruger to shoot well (thanks to a lot of you here it now does at least with one load) then my wifes Tikka right from the box will shoot an inch with anything, and you can see it is quality throughout it is hard to buy americian. my dad used to tell us kids that it was just as easy to own a good horse as it was to own a bad one, I think for me its that way with guns anymore. I spend at least 6 months a year in the bush guideing and trapping so rely on my rifles. Last year I bought 3 a browning BLR, a Ruger 30/06 and Marlin guide gun. The Browning was junk, it took me almost a year to get the ruger to shoot well enough for hunting, and the cheapest of all the Marlin shot good right off. Just got a price on a Tikka 338 federal stainless 699 can. i have almost a thousand in my Ruger now, more if i counted all the ammo I used. so for me i will get the Tikka, hope its as good as the one I got my wife.
    It more than like will be. They do a good in putting all the components together as well as a pretty clean and slick bore.
    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
    THE MIND OF A SCHOLAR
    THE HEART OF A CHILD
    THE HIDE OF A RHINOCEROS

  6. #6

    Default Rifles

    The main difference for hunting use between rough and smooth bores is rough bores seem to be harder to clean.
    I've shot rifles with 2 lands that were rough but accurate for field use and bench rifles that were accurate and had smooth bores.
    For most practical purposes the difference seems benign, except that the smoother the barrel the easier it is to clean and the less it fouls.
    " Americans will never need the 2nd Amendment, until the government tries to take it away."

    On the road of life..... Pot holes keep things interesting !

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •