Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 21

Thread: Meetings on the Rex trail decision

  1. #1
    Member jkb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Big Lake
    Posts
    1,466

    Default Meetings on the Rex trail decision

    There are meetings to discuss the Rex Trail Decision. Anyone wishing to appeal this decision must appeal in writing by June 4th.

    The meetings will be in Anderson and Fairbanks.

    Anderson at the Anderson School multipurpose room on May 13th from 7 to 10:00 PM

    Fairbanks at the Noel Wien Public Library May 14th from 7:00 to 10:00 PM

    Even you guys with four wheelers need to back up the guys with the big rigs because when the trail is still torn up next year you are next.

    http://www.dnr.alaska.gov/mlw/rextrail/
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming-----WOW-----what a ride!
    Unknown author

  2. #2
    Member tccak71's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    2,174

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jkb View Post
    Even you guys with four wheelers need to back up the guys with the big rigs because when the trail is still torn up next year you are next.

    http://www.dnr.alaska.gov/mlw/rextrail/
    Agreed. I find it offensive that big rigs have opened up this country and now will be excluded. BTW, I don't own a big rig and have never been on the Rex Trail. I'd love to write a letter, but I feel seriously underinformed to send in comments.

    I think it is dangerous to let this happen. JKB's right, wheelers are next. Then it will be open to only "locals" or miners.

    Tim

  3. #3
    Member BAR300's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    319

    Default seems arbitrary

    I've heard the Rex trail is in bad shape, I don't know cuz I've never ridden on it. I wonder if the policy makers are aware that the track rigs have less of an impact on the trail than ATV's, the pounds per square foot on a track rig is about the same as a humans. What is probably tearing the trail up is big trucks with 44 inch tires going like hell. I personally don't have a problem with big trucks going like hell across the tundra, but maybe they could do it somewhere where 20,000 people are not trying to access their hunting areas.

  4. #4
    Mark
    Guest

    Default

    It's open warfare on the big rigs.

    It's now illegal to use them to hunt caribou in the TC 566 Tier II hunt throughout GMU 13. The BOG did that just for kicks and grins, slipping it in there with the income restriction, but when the income restriction was rescinded, the ban on ORVs > 1500# stayed.

    People have been building these for hunting in GMU for nearly 60 years, and long, long before atvs were ever invented.

    In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didnít speak up because I wasnít a Communist;
    And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didnít speak up because I wasnít a trade unionist;
    And then they came for the Jews, And I didnít speak up because I wasnít a Jew;
    And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up.

  5. #5
    Member tccak71's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    2,174

    Default

    I think for every trail they exclude big rigs they should identify another area where they can be driven. The pics on the dnr site jkb provided didn't seem to bad to me. What is the solution to braiding? Spinning wheels till your in China? Seems logical to go around. Look what happened to the poor sap that tried to fix the Tanada Lake Trail by placing pallets down; NPS tried to nail his a*s to the wall.

    Tim

  6. #6
    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Palmer, AK
    Posts
    11,415

    Default

    The solution to braiding is trail improvement. But just try getting a privately funded trail improvement plan pushed through! What we need is a primitive access improvement bill that would give us certain guidelines to allow trail improvements without all the environmental impact crud.

  7. #7

    Default Mark and LuJon are on this one

    The Alaska Outdoor Access Alliance is made of, and works with, with all user groups facing restrictions in access to public land in the state. The AOAA is working with DNR on this issue now.
    DNR appears driven by a need to turn all the trails we have into roads, or near roads, or trail/roads (troads). They don't recognize the usefulness of a primitive trail not to mention the cost efficiency. The Generally Allowed Uses work against small groups fixing rough spots on trails. Corduroy roads worked for miners for many years and are still under many of the roads in this state. Can we fix a trail with this proven technique?? - Nope. Apparently no one is making money so we can't do it.
    Mike
    Mike
    www.alaskaatvclub.org
    There is a faster way off the mountain, might hurt a little though.

  8. #8
    Member AKFishOn's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Eagle River (Home!)
    Posts
    1,285

    Question Sounds like other states

    I have driven the Rex a few times, all with a sled and then too cold to do any damage in whatever you were driving I imagine. There is an area in Montana which I grew up fishing, we starting driving a pickup in and making camp off the end of the tail gate at the end of a two track road which stopped at a lake (or small pond). One year they started the - you can not drive down the last 400 yards (all rock) in a pickup as they don't want it to erode away, then ATV only the last 400 yards, then ATV only the 3 miles before the 400 yard mark, now went back last summer and now it is only ATVs and only after 1 JUL and you have to stop your ATV 400 yards short of our old camping spot. They use to stock the lake with trout, now they stopped as they said they can't drive down the road to get to it, and then the lake froze solid two years ago (which I found out last year), so if the intent was to get the lake back to nature it is there no fish, no road, and little to no visitors (a result of no fish and no road).

    Suppose the trail has to be managed but they will always take away (add restrictions) and never give them back, first big rigs, then ATVs, then bicycles, horses, then any wheels (even if it is a cart you are dragging by human power).
    Last edited by AKFishOn; 04-28-2008 at 13:38. Reason: spelling

  9. #9
    Member mod elan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Glennallen
    Posts
    1,476

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BAR300 View Post
    I wonder if the policy makers are aware that the track rigs have less of an impact on the trail than ATV's, the pounds per square foot on a track rig is about the same as a humans.
    We've been trying to beat this into their heads for the last 7 months. A few guys have offered to show up with their rigs to be weighed and tested in order to show them first hand how track rigs perform. We told them to give us a time and a place and we would be there. Nothing happened. We were shafted years ago when the guidelines were made and now we are paying for it. DNR's hands are tied. The rules need to be amended.

  10. #10

  11. #11
    Member jkb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Big Lake
    Posts
    1,466

    Default

    I am starting an E-mail campaign to the Governor and legislators. I've been stopping at businesses and homes where I see big rigs, all day. I'm hoping enough people will E-mail the Governor and legislators to make them at least ask a few questions.

    We used to drive pickups back Peters Creek Valley, now you can't take a snow machine back there without a biologists permission. You can't find our old trails back there. This was done before 4-wheelers were the norm. They used the same arguments. After 7 mile creek noone goes back any further you can't find the walking trail in August.

    I don't want to say I told you so when the the weight limits drop to 1000 then 500 and so on and so on. I believe there are people in State government that look at us citizens as intruders on State land. Not all in State government are this way, but enough to get the ball rolling.

    Let get involved here people send me a PM if you are unable to locate the governors E-mail. Let people know whats going on. Knock on that guy down the street with the swamp buggy's door, I've met some great guys today.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming-----WOW-----what a ride!
    Unknown author

  12. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    North Pole
    Posts
    413

    Default

    I've been using the Rex Trail for over thirty six years. There were no big tired rigs running it till about 8 years ago. Prior to that it was only Track Rigs, and 4-wheelers. Oh every two or three years someone would try and take a pick-up in to the first river, then had to be dragged out by a Track Rig. Would never see that guy again. Every year the trail stayed pretty much the same. Most of the mud holes were knee deep every year. No problem for 4-wheelers. The big Track Rigs would come along and mash the mud flat and smooth out the shallow ruts 4-wheelers made.

    Suddenly, about 8 years ago, all types of Big Tired Rigs started showing up. Instead of making ruts 4 to 8 inches deep like the 4-wheelers, they made ruts 2 and 3 feet deep. These ruts would make that hole impassiable for 4-wheelers, so they would go around. Then the next Big Tired Rig would do the same, tearing up vegetation and tundra. As the holes got deeper, and the bottoms got softer, the Tired rigs would hit the holes faster, this created a big wave of mud, that was thrown out of the hole, making the hole that much deeper. Eventually, the trail got so bad that the locals that live out the trail could not go back and forth with 4-wheelers as they had done for many years. The holes got too deep for the smaller track rigs that had been using the trail for decades. Long streatches of trail got so churned up that even the Big Track Rigs started sinking into the mud, instead of riding on top as they had always done in the past. This distruction of the Rex Trail is what caused the locals and many old time users to go to DNR and demand something be done.

    The Rex Trail is too wet and soft for Big Tired Rigs period. The many users of the trail, and the trail, had gotten along for decades without any major problems, till the Big Tired Rigs showed up.
    Gun Control means hitting your target.
    "Giving up your gun to someone else on demand is called surrender. It means that you have given up your ability to protect yourself to a power that is greater than you." - David Yeagley
    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"

  13. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    North Pole
    Posts
    413

    Default

    I did go to DNR and request that they place a restriction on the foot print of the vehicle not the vehicle weight. But they did not go that way.

    Yes I do own Big Tired Rigs, and even tho one of my three Big Tired Rigs does meet their weight restrictions, I will never take it out on the trail. I have too much respect for the other users, and do not want to cause further distruction of the trail.
    Gun Control means hitting your target.
    "Giving up your gun to someone else on demand is called surrender. It means that you have given up your ability to protect yourself to a power that is greater than you." - David Yeagley
    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"

  14. #14
    Member jkb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Big Lake
    Posts
    1,466

    Default

    I don't know who would want to take a swamp buggy on the Rex. Where did all these super buggys come from? Every rubber tired buggy I've been around would be not much fun on the Rex.

    I will appeal this decision and I will shout from the roof tops that this is the wrong way to go.

    These problems originated from ill conceived cow moose hunt and some really wet fall seasons.

    If ADF&G had moved the season back to freeze up we would not have this problem.



    I was told by a DNR employee that the reason tracked vehicles were included was some tracked vehicles go off the trail and make new trails.

    If this decision stands the precedent has been set and if the trail is in poor condition next year they just lower the weight limits until there are a low enough number of trail users.

    I encourage everyone to comment on this poorly researched decision. I provided a link at the start of this thread it has comment and appeal information.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming-----WOW-----what a ride!
    Unknown author

  15. #15
    Member jkb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Big Lake
    Posts
    1,466

    Default

    This paragraph is from the appeals page. DNR is ready to expand this decision. This is what happens when you get the government involved.


    DNR recognizes the need for more comprehensive evaluation of trail conditions, the relative impacts caused by different vehicles (including the extent of additional trail damage resulting from primarily ATVs), clarity and appropriateness of existing Generally Allowed Use regulations (11 AAC 96.020), and potential long-term management options for the Rex Trail (trail upgrades, realignments, etc). This restriction, therefore, is considered to be temporary. It will remain in effect until new information regarding trail conditions, impacts, or use patterns justify a different management decision. DNR is developing a plan for additional trail assessment to be conducted this upcoming season; however, the nature and extent of such work is contingent upon funding and staff availability.
    PENDING___________ _
    Last edited by jkb; 04-30-2008 at 22:14. Reason: more info
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming-----WOW-----what a ride!
    Unknown author

  16. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    North Pole
    Posts
    413

    Default

    These Swamp Buggies showed up four years before the Cow Hunts. When the restrictions were put in place down in unit 13, is when they started showing up on the Rex. The Cow Hunt only intensified their use. I've seen all types, from old Osh Gosh snow plow trucks with chained slick tires to custom built rigs with cleated tires five feet tall and 24 inches wide. Seen one guy with a powered trailer, hooked up to a PTO on the back of the truck. Several modified M-series vehicles. Even a Rollagon.
    Gun Control means hitting your target.
    "Giving up your gun to someone else on demand is called surrender. It means that you have given up your ability to protect yourself to a power that is greater than you." - David Yeagley
    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"

  17. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    North Pole
    Posts
    413

    Default As for Tracked Rigs going off trail,

    Yes they have. There is several small lakes and ponds on the North side of the trail that people had always slipped in on foot or rode 4-wheelers part way then walked. Anyway the trails were small and hardly visiable. In 2002 some track rigs that were new to the area went down some of those small trails and knocked down trees and tore up the tundra. They must have made many trips, because I had never seen a tracked rig tear up the ground so bad. Since then they have gone farther and farther out into the swampy areas. Last year I understand from Military friends, some rigs went as far as Blair Lakes, getting out onto the bombing range. That's a good way to ruin your whole day fast.
    Gun Control means hitting your target.
    "Giving up your gun to someone else on demand is called surrender. It means that you have given up your ability to protect yourself to a power that is greater than you." - David Yeagley
    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"

  18. #18
    Member jkb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Big Lake
    Posts
    1,466

    Default

    Just giving this thread a bump to remind everyone that the public meetings are tuesday in Anderson at 7:00 pm and Wedsday in Fairbanks at 7:00 pm the link is on the first post.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming-----WOW-----what a ride!
    Unknown author

  19. #19
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    264

    Default Link to Fairbanks News Miner article about the meeting


  20. #20
    Member jkb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Big Lake
    Posts
    1,466

    Default

    Time to get those appeals in on the Rex Trail. They have to be in by June 2nd. They can be done by e-mail.
    dnr.appeals@alaska.gov

    I think our best chance to get this reversed is an e-mail campaign to the Governor. She wants to be popular so lots of grumpy voters are not good for the approval rating.
    http://www.gov.state.ak.us/govmail.php

    I also started a social group for those of us in the 1500 lbs + catagory of ATV. Look in your user cp and find social groups. It will be easier for people to get info out that is specific to the 1500 plusers among us.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming-----WOW-----what a ride!
    Unknown author

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •