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Thread: Wild and scenic

  1. #1
    Member Akgramps's Avatar
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    Default Wild and scenic

    Question?
    Is it legal to operate a power boat on a "Wild and scenic" river?
    Recently I have been told otherwise.
    Perhaps someone knows the answer to this.

  2. #2

    Default Mostly NO but

    It's a Federal thing so even a lawyer won't figure it all out!

    There are Three designations: Wild, Scenic, & Recreational.

    Then the Feds many times only get control of "Segments" of the river. Alaska has 42 rivers/segments under the Congressional Act. Usually the "Recreational" segments can be power-boated. You cannot even run a chainsaw is most "Wild" or "Scenic" segments.

    Essentially, I would talk with a BLM or NPS veteran for whatever river/segment you might want to adventure on BEFORE going there (wouldn't want you to get a fine for peeing on the river bank )

    Here's a guidance list of some of Alaska's segments:

    http://gorp.away.com/gorp/activity/p...sr_ak.htm#alas

  3. #3

    Default Ak Gramps

    I don't know for sure but last year on the Gulkana some guy had one. In my humble opinion it was obnoxious. There is the flat winding stretch that youhave to row as there isn't much current. The whole way through it we had this guy buzzing along, could hear him for miles. He would stop and we would pass then he would buzz in front of us the stop then buzz ahead again. On a float trip the cool thing is you usually only have to look at people once. Every one is going the same speed so the only way they overtake you is if you stop and camp. Or the pass you before you break camp. I understand wanting to skip rowing the flat water, but it really was a detraction from a usually quiet undisturbed trip. Juat a thought.

  4. #4
    Member chriso's Avatar
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    Default

    I hated that flat water spot... I got a guy in a powerboat to pick me up.

    The Wild and Scenic rivers act is supposed to preserve the free flowing character of the river, many powerboaters value this as well as many non motorized users. Many W&S rivers have motorized as well as non motorized sections. A was pointed out, the actual designations are Wild, Scenic, and Recreational, with provisions for many additional regulations within each classification.

    I think it's important for us all to do a bit of pre study on a river so we know what to expect when we float or power on them, it helps us to have realistic expectations.

    I've actually floated rivers and caught other parties and had them get upset that we passed them by, and had similar reactions from folks who had hiked in to the shores.

    I think it's important we all practice tolerance and understanding if we are to ensure our pleasant experience on the river, and allow others the same reward.

    Here's a link to some information about W&S Rivers:

    http://www.rivers.gov/
    http://www.rivers.gov/publications/wsr-primer.pdf

    What riverwere you talking about AKGramps?

  5. #5
    Member Akgramps's Avatar
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    Default

    Chriso,
    I have been thinking about the Charley River.
    And you are absoutley right about tolerance and respect for other users.
    As much as we would like to think we are the only one on the river, there are fewer and fewer places were people havent been before, but that shouldnt diminish the experience.
    Its a great state with a lot to offer and certainly room for all users if we show each other some respect and help when needed, last fall I was stuck on a river and dam glad someone stoped to help me out.
    I have seen the winter trails around Fairbanks turn into a bit of battle between the diffrent users. people get so hung up on what hey are doing at the time they dont see the other side. I am interested in jet boats currently, I also have a couple of small kayaks and a canoe that are a lot of fun as well. I would like to try some rafting, dont know when I will have the time to do it all.
    I know if I meet someone in need on the river, I will offer help.
    Akgramps

  6. #6

    Default Toleerance is a good thing

    I wasn't trying to say I was intolerant just the noise on that section of the river really was an annoyance, and I am sure not just to me. As for passing by folks, when all are floating it is rare. Add one motor user and it changed the charateristics of the river. We have floated from the Parks Highway Bridge to a small takeout on the Little Su and had power boaters really act like the river is thiers. With snide remarks about the floaters on the river. This was a guide service that was getting around the Little Su launch fees. Wasn't very professional in front of his clients. And we were taking out so we hadn't been in his way at all.
    We have a power boat too and respect those that are floating by. Unless it would stick us in the mud we come off step to pass. Guess we have been on both sides of the fence, glared at for having the powerboat and snide remarks for floating.
    I guess my point is that some stretches it would be really nice to leave unmotorized. You have to deal with the boats later on anyway, it is just nice to have a quiet spot.

  7. #7
    Member Akgramps's Avatar
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    Default

    BJ,
    I have never been on the Gulkana, driven by and stopped at the pullout many times. One thing real nice about the Gulkana is the fact you can drive to a put in and take out point, which is real nice, especially for a family trying to do things w/o the cost of a fly in float.
    Probably a good river not to have motorized boats on. I need to do some research about which rivers are on the no-power boat list.
    There is a time and place for everything. I spent a summer on a small lake in Northern Wi a few years back and we would get skiers out there on ocasion, it was not a good body of water for that as there were some real shallow spots out in the middle, a good place for an injury if you didnt know the lake. and there were literally dozens of other lakes in the area that were large enough for that type of activity.
    Sure would be nice if people were more considerate .......................

  8. #8
    Member chriso's Avatar
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    Default

    As far as I know, the Charley has no restrictions on it power wise, but from what I've seen, lots of boulders that probably will limit most powerboaters merely from the shock effect!

    I didn't mean to insinuate anyone in particular is intolerant, just that probably each of us has a tendency to place our concerns and ideas first in our minds when we think of how and where different types of uses are appropriate and that we ought to bear in mind that limiting one particular groups use invariably places our use closer to the axe as well, and that if we study up beforehand and know what we might encounter we're apt to be less surprised and annoyed.

    I also love rafting and canoeing, and don't have an airboat, but will go to my grave defending their rights to access and use as well.

    I remember a canoe trip with my wife on our honeymoon that I often tell of. We were passed by some commercial jetboaters on a thin and winding creek with no room for them to safely pass without running us over. We also heard them coming for a long time before they got to us. We also pulled over in fear of what would have happened when we enocountered them. They flew by and never even gave us a cursory glance. I've hated them ever since, and on numerous occasions thought to myslef how they almost endangered us. In all honesty, they never did endanger us, and had they merely given me the time of day by waving to us, I'd never have given it another thought.

    I also let myself get talked into taking my first large jetboat on the same Little Sue as was mentioned earlier way back in the early 1980's. I had so many encounters with smaller boats and non motorized users, and had to come off step to idle by without causing undue concern on their parts (yes, I'm also a firm believer in that whenever possible) that I was flat out embarrassed and left the river never to return with a boat like that again.

    I think a lot of us have been on both sides of the spectrum, and am glad to hear folks talk about getting along, sharing the rivers with other folks using them somewhat differently, and being thankful we all live in a place so rich with opportunities to experience such things.

    I think I ruined some floaters experience on the Charley when I was scouting it to float a few years back. They were floating along and I buzzed a gravel bar several times in order to make a safe landing, flying low over their heads for several passes. I didn't mean to make a bunch of noise and spoil any part of their trip, but I was running low on gas and daylight and couldn't afford to fly away and wait until they were well clear of the area. I hope they understood.

  9. #9

    Default

    AKgramps you can run the charly with a power boat. Me and my family go up there alot. If it's your first time up there make sure you take stuff to patch your boat in case you hit something. Not saying you will but there are some really big rocks and shallow water. But a really pretty river worth seeing.
    06 custom weld storm 6 liter 212 and other stuff
    05 1000X with some little thing's done

  10. #10
    Member Akgramps's Avatar
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    Default How Far?

    YZ,
    How far up the Charley have you been able to go?
    Did you go during hunting season?
    I have heard of guys going all the way to Copper Creek.
    I have a 20 foot boat w/ outboard.

  11. #11

    Default

    You will only be able to run up about 60 miles. Maybe if the water was really high you might go farther but would be iffy. Been up during hunting and just to fish.
    06 custom weld storm 6 liter 212 and other stuff
    05 1000X with some little thing's done

  12. #12

    Default

    You have jet on it right? One other thing how fast will your boat run on gps. The current some place up there is about 15 miles an hour.
    06 custom weld storm 6 liter 212 and other stuff
    05 1000X with some little thing's done

  13. #13
    Member Akgramps's Avatar
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    Default 140 Jet

    The boat has a 140 Johnson w/jet, its a 4 stroke made by suzuki, I am told?
    I havent picked the boat up yet. hopefully this weekend and when the rivers thaw I can start learning what it will do.
    Typically the builder puts 115's on these boats so it should do well w/ the 140.
    LOTS OF ANTICIPATION AT THIS POINT.....!!!

    I suppose lots of people are with spring dragging its feet!

  14. #14

    Default

    How heavy is the boat? My dad runs it with a 18' wooldridge that has a 200 hp yamaha on it. They will cavitate in the rapids. If you run all the way to Highland creek you will gain 800' in elevation from the mouth. In 60 miles.
    06 custom weld storm 6 liter 212 and other stuff
    05 1000X with some little thing's done

  15. #15
    Member Akgramps's Avatar
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    Default 920?

    I am told the hull weighs 920 pounds, I plan on putting it on a scale when I get it.

    The boat is built by Silverstreak in Anchorage.
    Its actually 19-8 w/ 60" bottom, the hull design is similar to a wooldridge Extra-plus, only a little less deadrise in the back.

    Is your Dads Wooly a extra-plus?
    They have a thicker bottom that the Alaskans.

  16. #16

    Default

    No it's a Alaskan. Sounds like a nice hull. Are you going to have a console and top?
    06 custom weld storm 6 liter 212 and other stuff
    05 1000X with some little thing's done

  17. #17
    Member Akgramps's Avatar
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    Default yes

    Walk thru windshield and full canvas with a self draining bow like the woolys.
    Suprised on your dads 18 foot alaskan, not many are sold cause more $ than the 20, very nice boats, that thing must be a blast with that much power...!

  18. #18

    Default Chriso and Ak gramps

    WE have done the Gulkana for 15 years. So that is why we didn't expect a motor, it was the first year we had to listen to one on the upper river. The lower river has lots of motor boats, the river is large enough to accomadate both floaters and powerboats. So we wxpect it then. Guess if I was the one rowing I might have a different opinion too!
    As for research beware as it can be misleading! We have been steered wrong more thatn once but that is part of the adventure I guess!
    Same sorts of shared usage is debated about the trails around our home. The worst part is they are disappearing as developers are rubbing them out right and left. Trails that are old!
    Maybe if folks read some of these threads they too will learn the tolerance and common courtesy that can make all our days happier

  19. #19

    Default

    Yeah it's fun but doesn't have the power that my custom weld has though. But it will run skinny water. And is alot better getting it unstuck.
    06 custom weld storm 6 liter 212 and other stuff
    05 1000X with some little thing's done

  20. #20
    Member Roger's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bljames View Post
    . This was a guide service that was getting around the Little Su launch fees. .

    GEE I wonder who that was ?
    PEOPLE SAY I HAVE A.D.D I DON'T UNDERSTA.....OH LOOK A MOOSE !!!

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