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Thread: Small Boat Terrorism...

  1. #1

    Default Small Boat Terrorism...

    http://http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/04/27/small.boat.terror.ap/index.html

    Here is a link to a cnn article about the feds wishing to crack down on the possibility of terrorism carried out by small boats. One thing they said in the article but was shot down was a national boat drivers license. It also mentioned something about a safety document that you must have on board linking it to your ID. What do you all think about it?

  2. #2
    Mark
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    Quote Originally Posted by jim mcleary View Post
    Here is a link to a cnn article about the feds wishing to crack down on the possibility of terrorism carried out by small boats. One thing they said in the article but was shot down was a national boat drivers license. It also mentioned something about a safety document that you must have on board linking it to your ID. What do you all think about it?
    Stupid. What's a "national boat license" going to do to eliminate an act of terrorism?

    Did automotive drivers licenses put an end to crime, even motor vehicle crime? Did vehicle registration put an end to stolen vehicles?

    It's bullspit.

  3. #3
    Member AKBassking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    Stupid. What's a "national boat license" going to do to eliminate an act of terrorism?

    Did automotive drivers licenses put an end to crime, even motor vehicle crime? Did vehicle registration put an end to stolen vehicles?

    It's bullspit.
    I would agree

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    Member alaskachuck's Avatar
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    Thumbs down Oh please

    The Feds cant even police themselves let alone anyone else.
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    Member chriso's Avatar
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    Default Heard of the TWIC card requirements yet?

    They maybe didn't get the national licensing thing passed yet, but this is now a requirement for anybody with a coast guard license, or commercial drivers license. I think sept is the deadline before you can't operate without it...

    http://www.tsa.gov/what_we_do/layers/twic/index.shtm

    Interestingly enough, seems like I remember that post 9-11 one of the key findings and suggestions to make us safer was for the agencies to do a better job of linking their information exchange systems? Check out the new background checks and fingerprintings required for the TWIC cards and ask if you can go with the ones you already gave the Coast Guard, or the DOT for a CDL... NOPE! Each entity and system has to have their own information. Seems like they plan to fill their system up with background checks and fingerprints of gainfully employed law abiding citizens, I wish I had a sense of confidence they were planning to fill the same systems with some information on the bad guys too....

  6. #6
    Member Rod in Wasilla's Avatar
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    Give me a break. A driver's license didn't keep Timothy McVeigh from loading a truck with fertilizer, and a pilot's license didn't keep the planes from flying into the Towers on 9/11. What exactly makes anybody think a boat license will keep criminals from commiting crime with a boat? Do the bureaucrats at DHS have any connection with reality? Maybe submission to a lobotomy a job requirement?
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  7. #7

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    Burucratic mindset: don't solve the problem, create more buruacracy, gather power for their department, more funding etc. After all it's national security, yeah, like when Sec of Transportation Mineta said Post 9/11 "The Borders are sealed"
    I nearly fell out of my chair.

  8. #8
    Mark
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    Some folks are advocating licensing here.

    Something about making folks use proper mariner terminology, know the rules of the "road", competency, etc.........

  9. #9
    Moderator Daveinthebush's Avatar
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    Default Nice

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    Some folks are advocating licensing here.

    Something about making folks use proper mariner terminology, know the rules of the "road", competency, etc.........

    It sure would be nice if some people knew which side of the harbor entrance to pilot their boats in, might know how to even communicate with other vessels or what is required to be carried on a vessel, could read a NO WAKE sign.

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  10. #10
    Mark
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daveinthebush View Post
    It sure would be nice if some people knew which side of the harbor entrance to pilot their boats in, might know how to even communicate with other vessels or what is required to be carried on a vessel, could read a NO WAKE sign.
    Yup to all of that.

    A mariner's license would cure all that, all right.

    Just like automotive driver's licenses have helped people read traffic signs, kept them on the "starboard" side of the road, how to communicate using sign language (a certain finger in particular), etc...........

  11. #11

    Default Education, not to beconfused with schooling,

    is a far better approach than legislation.Every time someone says "there otter be a law!" they just jeopardized more of their personal freedoms.
    This forum, others like it assist in the the dissemination of knowledge. Reading, talking with more experienced folks, reading books, etc. This will help those that want to learn.
    Those that don't, won't care about the licenses, permits, rules of the road, others, themselves etc.
    Common courtesy is no longer common.
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  12. #12
    Moderator Daveinthebush's Avatar
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    Default Doesn't help though

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    Yup to all of that.

    A mariner's license would cure all that, all right.

    Just like automotive driver's licenses have helped people read traffic signs, kept them on the "starboard" side of the road, how to communicate using sign language (a certain finger in particular), etc...........
    Mark: It does one no good when entering the port and someone is on the wrong side. You signal them and they still come head on because they don't know the signals. You radio them and they usually don't have a radilo either.

    You have no where to go, except the rocks and they keep coming on. If you go to the wrong side and hit another vessel you are in the wrong.

    Just knowing the basics of the road helps. Unless we have an open season on idiots.

    Vietnam - June 70 - Feb. 72
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  13. #13
    Mark
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    Quote Originally Posted by leahy View Post
    Education, not to beconfused with schooling,.....
    .....is a far better approach than legislation......
    I agree, but the lawyers among us will point out that licensing mandates the education. In order to become licensed, you must "pass the test". In order to pass the test, you must study for it.

    Then the terrorism type thing comes into play. If you have a license, it makes it easier for the police to identify the bad guys.

    Submit to it. It will all be okay............

    That which has been will be again; what has been done will be done again. And there is nothing new under the sun.
    Ecclesiastes 1:9

  14. #14
    Member captaindd's Avatar
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    Default licensing

    All they are doing is creating more goverment jobs. All it is going to do is cost us is more money. Cost of this is around $135. They hired a contractor to issue the licenses. Right now this applies to people working in secured ports, and people who have Coast Guard Licenses.

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    Member Rod in Wasilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    ...If you have a license, it makes it easier for the police to identify the bad guys.
    How does me getting a license help police identify bad guys? Do they put a "good guy" / "bad guy" designition on it?

    What I'm saying in this and the other thread is that if a license is issued as proof that someone has achieved some significant level of comptency in a given field (i.e., Professional Engineer's license, pilot's license), then I say licensing is OK. If a license is only issued to regulate what a person can and can't do (i.e., liquor license, business license), then I say no thanks.

    And again, the posession of a license has little to do with the actions of criminals. It's like putting a lock on a sliding glass door. It only keeps the honest people honest while giving a false sense of security to the homeowner. The criminals won't care that the lock is there if they intend to break in and steal your stuff, and the homeowner still feels violated when they do.
    Quote Originally Posted by northwestalska
    ... you canít tell stories about the adventures you wished you had done!

  16. #16
    Mark
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rod in Wasilla View Post
    Originally Posted by Mark
    ...If you have a license, it makes it easier for the police to identify the bad guys.
    How does me getting a license help police identify bad guys? Do they put a "good guy" / "bad guy" designition on it?....
    They put a bar code on it. When scanned with their newfangled bar code readers, it tells them "Good" or "Bad".

    .....What I'm saying in this and the other thread is that if a license is issued as proof that someone has achieved some significant level of comptency in a given field (i.e., Professional Engineer's license, pilot's license), then I say licensing is OK. If a license is only issued to regulate what a person can and can't do (i.e., liquor license, business license), then I say no thanks......
    I can understand your position, but I'd add that a license issued as proof that someone has achieved some significant level of competency in a given field isn't proof that someone has achieved some significant level of competency in a given field, and I point at automotive driver's licenses and the number of automobile accidents, tickets, etc as undeniable proof of that statement.

    ....And again, the posession of a license has little to do with the actions of criminals....
    I fully agree with that, just like the possesion of a license has little to do with the actions of lawful citizens.

    But a license does make law enforcement easier, especially when those licenses are so easily and instantaneously tied to criminal databases.

    But, of course, all that is moot if the court or political system fails after the law enforcement folks apprehend criminals...........

  17. #17
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    Default Boat operator's license??

    Don't get too wrapped around the axle about boat licenses, there's been quite a bit of miscommunications about the facts at a national level. Take this verbatim:

    Nobody is (or will be, at least in the foreseeable future) proposing licensing for boaters in Alaska.

    The proposal was/is for mandatory boater education.

    Alaska is one of only about a dozen states that have no form of mandatory boater education. I don't think there's been a single member of this forum that hasn't seen at least one other boater that graphically demonstrated the need for education!

    The proposal gives the Coast Guard 180 days to review existing State boating education programs and other boater education programs, analyze the exent of reciprocity between states, outline minimum standards for education, course content and delivery methodology; plus recommendations regarding boater education.

    This is still a long way from becoming law, it just passed the House as part of the Coast Guard Reauthorization Bill. How does it relate to the original post of small boat terrorism, you ask?

    That question is exactly why some journalists 'converted' education to licensing in the first place; there wasn't an easy connection, so they simply made a connection that worked, albeit incorrect.

    And here's the real kicker: I can't really tell you why education would help alleviate terrorism.

    I do know that education will help save lives (that's a given). I do know that the small vessel threat is taken very seriously by the Coast Guard. I do know that Alabama is the only state that currently licenses recreational boaters. I do know that Alaska was the last state to pass a boating safety law and receive federal funds as part of their program. I do know that Alaska suffers from approximately 8 times the national rate of recreational boating fatalities.

    If anyone would care to speculate or try and make any connections, be my guest....(or maybe we could call an out-of-state journalist??)

    Sorry about the poorly veiled sarcasm, sometimes I just spin out of control!

    Those of you who think government and/or the Coast Guard is way off base/out of control/too oppressive (or whatever), just toss your rocks my way, I'll either respond, duck or ignore you (my choice - gotta love an internet forum!) Mike

  18. #18
    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    I can't find my 12 year old coast guard boater safety card is there a database where that can be reissued? I have a feeling the answer is no.... Between a bow license, bear bait, hunters safety and lord knows what else I may never get a free weekend to actually enjoy any of the stuff I will be licensed to perform...

  19. #19
    Mark
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    Quote Originally Posted by CG Boating Safety View Post
    ....The proposal was/is for mandatory boater education.....
    How would the CG know if the mandatory boater education was successfully passed?

    Would the boater be required to carry a card of some sort?

  20. #20
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    Default Boater education

    Mark:
    Yes, the boater would have to carry a card (as they do in the states that already have mandatory education requirements). There was an Alaska Boating Safety Advisory Council meeting on Monday (in Anchorage) and the Council will be making a recommendation to the State Office of Boating Safety about the mechanics (concerns, issues, recommendations) of what mandatory ed in Alaska should look like....every boater should have input...what's yours? Mike

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