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Thread: higher or lower?

  1. #1

    Question higher or lower?

    The scenario is this: Center of bore is -1.5" below line of sight and rifle shoots 3" high at 100yds and is dead on at 300yds. OK, typical sight in. Now, same rifle, but with open sights. The center of bore now is -1" below line of sight. So for this scenario to be dead on at 300 yds, would the 100yd elevation be higher or lower than 3"? It seems to me that it should be lower, because one is starting out .5" higher to begin with. Is this wrong? Seems that the only info available (that I have) all start with -1.5". Thanks.
    If you like getting kicked by a mule...then you'll "love" shooting my .458.

  2. #2

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    Maydog, this site should answer your question.

    http://www.biggameinfo.com/index.asp...2fbalcalc.ascx

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maydog View Post
    The scenario is this: Center of bore is -1.5" below line of sight and rifle shoots 3" high at 100yds and is dead on at 300yds. OK, typical sight in. Now, same rifle, but with open sights. The center of bore now is -1" below line of sight. So for this scenario to be dead on at 300 yds, would the 100yd elevation be higher or lower than 3"? It seems to me that it should be lower, because one is starting out .5" higher to begin with. Is this wrong? Seems that the only info available (that I have) all start with -1.5". Thanks.
    Higher.

    With the sight 1" above the bore, the angle of the bore (it always points up slightly) will be greater (up more) and it will cross the line of sight sooner (before 25 yards) and will have a sharper trajectory. At the 100 yard point the bullet will be higher and will have aslightly higher M.O. and then drop to cross line of sight again at 300 yards.

    Running a similar scenario through my program I got these numbers.

    Sights 1.5" above bore: Sights 1.0 " above bore:
    25-------+0.04"-------------------------+0.42"
    50-------+1.22"-------------------------+1.64"
    100------+3.07"-------------------------+3.40"
    150------+3.96"-------------------------+4.21"
    200------+3.82"-------------------------+3.98"
    250------+2.53"-------------------------+2.62"
    300-------0.00"---------------------------0.00"
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



  4. #4
    Member RMiller's Avatar
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    Best way it to shoot at 300 yards.
    "You have given out too much reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later".

  5. #5

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    Maydog, if your bullet is 3" high at 100 yds and zero at at 300 yds then it is likley climbing to to about 4" or more above sightline in its trajectory. Personally I like to to keep my bullets at 3" or less in trajectory inside 300 yds. Just an observation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RMiller View Post
    Best way it to shoot at 300 yards.

    Can you hold shot within .5" at 300 yards?
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



  7. #7

    Talking thanks!

    I had the sneaky feeling that I was probably wrong, and I knew I'd get put on the right track. And that Big Game Info site is just the nat's behind Montana. It's in my favorites now. Proves that "sometimes" an ol dog can learn new tricks. Ciao.
    If you like getting kicked by a mule...then you'll "love" shooting my .458.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    Can you hold shot within .5" at 300 yards?
    No. Can you?

    Seems to me the guy is trying to sight in for 300 yards. The only way to reliably do that is to shoot at 300 yards.

    I got 3.7 inches at 100 yards for a .5" sight hight if the 1.5" sight height is 3" at 100 Yards for a 300 yard zero for both.

    I have included this ballistics calcuator several times on forums but I dont think anyone but me looks at it. http://www.eskimo.com/~jbm/calculations/traj/traj.html I got it from SST's rifle room http://www.angelfire.com/mo2/rifleroom/index.html a great resource for shooting. .

    -1.5========= -.5======= muzzle
    1.2========= 2.1======= 50 yrds
    3 ========= 3.7======= 100 yrds
    3.9========= 4.4====== 150 yrds
    3.7========= = 4.1======= 200yrds
    2.5 =========== 2.6====== 250yrds
    0.0 ========== 0.0======= 300yrds

    God I hate making charts on this the spaces are all deleted when I go to post. I hit the spacebar cause I want a space there!!!!!
    "You have given out too much reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later".

  9. #9

    Talking Appreciate the info

    actualy, I was just trying to find out the difference using an open sight (1") from a scope. I just used the 300 yd scenario as an example. I am using open sights on my Marlin LTD and and have settled for a 175 yd zero, which would be 1.7 " high at 50 yds. That's using a 300 gr jsp at 2350 fps. It's working very good as I'm getting a little under an inch at 50 yds. Thanks, ciao.
    Quote Originally Posted by RMiller View Post
    No. Can you?

    Seems to me the guy is trying to sight in for 300 yards. The only way to reliably do that is to shoot at 300 yards.

    I got 3.7 inches at 100 yards for a .5" sight hight if the 1.5" sight height is 3" at 100 Yards for a 300 yard zero for both.

    I have included this ballistics calcuator several times on forums but I dont think anyone but me looks at it. http://www.eskimo.com/~jbm/calculations/traj/traj.html I got it from SST's rifle room http://www.angelfire.com/mo2/rifleroom/index.html a great resource for shooting. .

    -1.5========= -.5======= muzzle
    1.2========= 2.1======= 50 yrds
    3 ========= 3.7======= 100 yrds
    3.9========= 4.4====== 150 yrds
    3.7========= = 4.1======= 200yrds
    2.5 =========== 2.6====== 250yrds
    0.0 ========== 0.0======= 300yrds

    God I hate making charts on this the spaces are all deleted when I go to post. I hit the spacebar cause I want a space there!!!!!
    If you like getting kicked by a mule...then you'll "love" shooting my .458.

  10. #10
    Member RMiller's Avatar
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    All the practice is very good.

    But unless you are actually shooting at the range you intend to hunt at you are doing little more than guessing what the outcome will be.

    If you plan on hunting at 175 yards you cannot practice for it by shooting 1.7" high at 50 yards. You must shoot at 175 yards also.

    Not trying to sound harsh if it seems to sound that way. Even though it is an educated guess, it should be close for a short range like 175 yards. Shooting at 175 yards also will seal the deal so to speak.
    "You have given out too much reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later".

  11. #11

    Wink I hear ya

    I hear what you're saying and agree. It's not so much that that range I intend to hunt at, it's the range at which I would shoot at and that is from 10 yds to around 250. My pbr is out to around 220, so up to that range, I just hold where I want, but I still shoot at various ranges also, as you suggest. My limiting factor for distance shooting is open sights, which makes me get closer (you know, stalking) and that's how I want it to be. I personally want to put hunting back into the equation, instead of just killing. That's why I have been leaving my scoped magnums in the safe. I find more enjoyment and satisfaction in my outings. Just me, thanks, ciao.
    Quote Originally Posted by RMiller View Post
    All the practice is very good.

    But unless you are actually shooting at the range you intend to hunt at you are doing little more than guessing what the outcome will be.

    If you plan on hunting at 175 yards you cannot practice for it by shooting 1.7" high at 50 yards. You must shoot at 175 yards also.

    Not trying to sound harsh if it seems to sound that way. Even though it is an educated guess, it should be close for a short range like 175 yards. Shooting at 175 yards also will seal the deal so to speak.
    If you like getting kicked by a mule...then you'll "love" shooting my .458.

  12. #12
    Member RMiller's Avatar
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    I have been shooting an open sighted rifle lately and I have found I am not any better with it than a handgun. I am good for a hundred yards or so.

    I have found that I need to get my eyes checked. When I do I expect my shooting will improve a lot.

    But it is a load of fun.
    "You have given out too much reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later".

  13. #13

    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by RMiller View Post
    I have been shooting an open sighted rifle lately and I have found I am not any better with it than a handgun. I am good for a hundred yards or so.

    I have found that I need to get my eyes checked. When I do I expect my shooting will improve a lot.

    But it is a load of fun.
    I'm fortunate to have good eyesight, or I wouldn't be able to use open sights. I went to them 4 years ago (although I shot them for years when I was just starting out ). I do use a very fine rear notch and a front red fiber optic (1/16") on my .458 single shot, and same rear sight on my Marlin but with a 3/32" red fiber optic front. This definitely enhances everything. I agree, it's a load of fun. Good luck.
    If you like getting kicked by a mule...then you'll "love" shooting my .458.

  14. #14
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    Default Raising the height of your rifle scope.

    Look at it this way.

    A Higher mounted sight will effectively flatten the trajectory, and a Lower one will have the opposite effect. (This is from the line of the bore to the target.)

    The bullet will cross the line of sight further away, the 1 st time, and further away the 2 nd time, and for a given sight-in range, there will be less mid-range height.

    However, you can use the same midrange height for both a high mounted sight and a lower mounted sight, and with the higher one, you will have a longer “point blank range”.

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    Thumbs up hunting vs sniping

    Quote Originally Posted by Maydog View Post
    I hear what you're saying and agree. It's not so much that that range I intend to hunt at, it's the range at which I would shoot at and that is from 10 yds to around 250. My pbr is out to around 220, so up to that range, I just hold where I want, but I still shoot at various ranges also, as you suggest. My limiting factor for distance shooting is open sights, which makes me get closer (you know, stalking) and that's how I want it to be. I personally want to put hunting back into the equation, instead of just killing. That's why I have been leaving my scoped magnums in the safe. I find more enjoyment and satisfaction in my outings. Just me, thanks, ciao.
    Maydog,
    Now that's a breath of fresh air! I haven't shot a scoped, plastic, ss bolt gun in over a year.
    Seems like Murphy's and JM's ballistics programs are pretty much in agreement.

    Here's another fun calculator. Simply add your bullet's specs over on left side under "Define your own bullet". Very easy to use interactive program. Can even adjust "sightline height" on a slide bar near bottom of page.

    http://web.archive.org/web/200602061.../javapagee.htm

  16. #16

    Talking Hunting vs sniping

    Quote Originally Posted by George View Post
    Maydog,
    Now that's a breath of fresh air! I haven't shot a scoped, plastic, ss bolt gun in over a year.
    Seems like Murphy's and JM's ballistics programs are pretty much in agreement.

    Here's another fun calculator. Simply add your bullet's specs over on left side under "Define your own bullet". Very easy to use interactive program. Can even adjust "sightline height" on a slide bar near bottom of page.

    http://web.archive.org/web/200602061.../javapagee.htm
    Thanks George. You know, I guess I was like a lot of hunters, in that I hunted probably more for ego than enjoyment. Now, yes there's still some ego involved, but the main emphasis is on enjoying the outing more and the way I want to do it is to get away from just the killing aspect. A deer at 500 yds, for example, is a dead deer with a scoped mag, but open sight makes it a different game. Yea, it's maybe not a challenging as if one uses an axe, but one still has to become a better hunter (stalker). There's a difference between killing and hunting, but that get's into personal preference, kinda like religion and preaching and we want to stay away from that in public discussions. Especially soap boxing. Anyway, thanks for the additional info. Ciao.
    If you like getting kicked by a mule...then you'll "love" shooting my .458.

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