Page 1 of 6 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 111

Thread: BLM -Ahtna and Problems Ahead.

  1. #1

    Default BLM -Ahtna and Problems Ahead.

    Northway gave me a heads up on this but I thought I would pass this along to you folks for a number of reasons.

    I am also posting this in the hunting section as a help before people get into trouble. This might also change many peoples hunting plans and I felt that
    the forum community should know about something that bothers me.

    BLM had a meeting in Fairbanks, last Tuesday. At the meeting they discussed how many different trails would be closed as they were being conveyed to Ahtna. I don't think many know the extent of this or the traditional and historical significance of the areas that they are summarily closing without much discussion.

    Liberty Falls- Supposedly the state made a mistake in its surveying and missurveyed the area so the Ahtna Native Corporation owns it through its selection.
    Liberty falls has been a waystation and tourist spot since 1918 on the Chitina to Fairbanks Highway.
    It is closed until further notice and you would get cited for trespassing even if you had an Ahtna Shareholder's card unless you get a land use permit.

    5 mile/Nagengast Mine Road/ Burma Road- This trail is also old. I have an Alaska Sportsman magazine from 1982 where they explored it and I know that the mine was in production from the early 1960s. This road is closed and it will not be accessible for those who want to go sheep hunting.
    Its 17.b status was rejected.

    Obrien Creek Trail- This was one of Guy George's Horse Trails. Guy George was the Part Native Guide who is featured in Larry Kanuits Alaska Bear Tales. He fought off a sow grizzly who attacked him with an Ice Axe which he lodged in the Sow Grizzly's eye. He used the trail from the early 1970s.

    Red Hill-Mile 68 Richardson-This was an old mining claim that was also a stop over on the way from Valdez to Tonsina. The old corduroy bridges and road still can get you to Kimball lakes very quickly.

    Fourth of July Creek-This led up to Quartz Creek and was an old trail to the ghost town of Bel Caro which was one of the biggest AK ghost towns in 1899. This is on the Tonsina Lake side of the Richardson at mile 63.

    Haley Creek Trail- This was a trail that was built by Bud Conkle in the late 1960s by Bud. He used it as a horse trail and it is featured in the book Trail of the Eagle. Supposedly there is a old miners cabin on this trail that is a door into the hillside. Again this trail is locked off.

    Guides and there are two registered guides that use this area. Many more have the option of getting in there but they are not using this side anymore because Ahtna wants $6000 for a commercial access to this area from the Copper River.

    Hundell Creek Drainage- Near Lower Tonsina. The trail climbs to the small hanging glacier in the valley above. This was a trail used by Agnes Taylor for probably 35 years and is now closed off.

    I am not a racist. I grew up and live there three to four months a year.
    I would live there full time if I could open a school in Chitina.

    I just think that it is inappropriate for the Ahtna Native Corporation to seal up so much history and beautiful country.

    I have my ways in. But this puts a lot of pressure on a very small area.


    Sincerely,

    Thomas

  2. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    56

    Default Ahtna!

    Do you have a map of the land for the proposed changes?
    Where can we get more info??
    I looked on BLM's web site but I couldn't find anything.
    I spend a lot of time hunting and playing in the area you are talking about.


    Thanks for the heads up!

  3. #3

    Default its done.

    These are proposed changes.
    BLM and their land representative specialist who I went to high school at Kenny Lake High with basically said that it was a done deal.

    I have no map of the area other than the one that they had available.

    It was interesting that most of the people were interested in the land selections near Cantwell and Tok but nobody realized that they also included much of Chitina Country.

    Sincerely,

    Thomas

  4. #4
    Mark
    Guest

    Default

    Any conveyances at Tazlina Lake?

  5. #5

    Default No 17.B Access to Tazlina Lake

    The trail that was traditionally used there is gone as well. It was marked for 17b status but was not approved.

    Sincerely,

    Thomas

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    2,083

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HuntinAK View Post
    Do you have a map of the land for the proposed changes?
    Where can we get more info??
    I looked on BLM's web site but I couldn't find anything.
    I spend a lot of time hunting and playing in the area you are talking about.


    Thanks for the heads up!

    The Alaska Outdoor Council has a lot of information on this subject. I had one of their e-mails sent to me, but I deleted it a couple of days ago.

  7. #7
    Member PatrickH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Eagle River, AK
    Posts
    253

    Default Done Deal?

    I talked to a BLM representative at the Sportsman's Show whose specialty is 17B access. It did not sound good. She said the BLM has basicly no ability at this point to deny the native corporation land selections. She also said it was too late for the public to do anyting about it. I hope she is wrong. The village selections are already done. The corporation selections are due by June or July. No surprise that much of their selections are along both sides of roads and rivers. The federal agencies are trying to get all the land conveyed within a year.
    Some of the heavily used trails may be designated 17b access. But the trails I use are small and seldom used. The small trails are almost certainly gone in much of the state. Almost all of Broad Pass on the Parks has been selected.
    Look at the maps of proposed selections. I think the s*** storm is about to hit. Get used to seeing no trespassing signs on a road or river near you....

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    702

    Default

    This is what happens when ya buy stolen property from the Russians

  9. #9
    Member jkb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Big Lake
    Posts
    1,466

    Default

    Why is it the State or Feds can claim eminent domain and claim a right of way across my property but can't get a right of way on trails for newly conveyed land. I think we've been had again maybe they should have been watching more than just Suite 604 at the Baronoff in Juneau.

    If you look at the Native land map there are strips less than a mile wide all along the highway system and many rivers. This is about controlling land, If you control access why own the land?

    What would the outcry be if a corporation started buying land along highways and rivers was named Exxon or Anglo American.

    You can't even use these lands if you are a shareholder much less an Alaska Native. Unless you pay.

    I went to the trouble to get a permit from Eklutna Inc to cross a small patch of their land to go up Baldy in Eagle River. Fairly intrusive application but no fee, I wondered why do it. It set precedent for a very profitable land swap with the Muni of Anchorage down the road.

    Sorry for the rant but this is more frustrating than the old permits to go up the Dalton Highway.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming-----WOW-----what a ride!
    Unknown author

  10. #10
    Member martentrapper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Fairbanks, Ak.
    Posts
    4,191

    Default

    No easements? BLM used to be good about allowing easements.
    I can't help being a lazy, dumb, weekend warrior.......I have a JOB!
    I have less friends now!!

  11. #11
    Member Chisana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Juneau, Alaska
    Posts
    1,439

    Default

    It is disappointing to see the 17b easements eliminated, but I believe Ahtna will issue a recreational use permit that could be used to access public lands across their property.

  12. #12

    Default

    "Haley Creek Trail- This was a trail that was built by Bud Conkle in the late 1960s by Bud. He used it as a horse trail and it is featured in the book Trail of the Eagle. Supposedly there is a old miners cabin on this trail that is a door into the hillside. Again this trail is locked off."

    There's another way in besides going up from the Copper River side, it's just a matter of finding that trail from the other side.

  13. #13
    Member bushrat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Now residing in Fairbanks from the bush
    Posts
    4,363

    Default Some more information

    BLM has extended the comment deadline regarding 17b easements on Ahtna lands until May 16. Here is a link for those interested:
    http://www.blm.gov/ak/st/en/prog/lan...tna_Lands.html

    This is a public process, so anyone can send in comments regarding what easements they would like to see and where. I encourage everyone concerned to send in comments.

  14. #14

    Default thanks Mark!

    Mark,

    Thanks for the site. You seem to always know the where's and what's!

  15. #15
    Mark
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kaboku68 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    Any conveyances at Tazlina Lake?
    No 17B Access to Tazlina Lake

    The trail that was traditionally used there is gone as well. It was marked for 17b status but was not approved.
    I know of 4 trails to Tazlina Lake.

    New conveyances cut them all off?

  16. #16
    Mark
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by martentrapper View Post
    No easements? BLM used to be good about allowing easements.
    If easements with Native Corps and villages aren't done during the claims/conveyance process in court, they're negotiated later.

    If BLM doesn't have a sweet incentive to trade (access through federal lands to Native resource rich lands, or trade old growth federal lands for previously logged Native lands), the Native group usually isn't interested.

    I'm wondering about all this hulabalu:

    I thought the "claiming" was done years ago, and we've been waiting for the last of the conveyances, but I'm reading things here that indicate the the claiming is continuing........

  17. #17
    Member martentrapper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Fairbanks, Ak.
    Posts
    4,191

    Default

    The claiming was done years ago. However, some claimed lands are denied and the corp. gets to select new areas. The final conveyance has to equal what was promised in ANCSA.
    BLM should be putting in easements to allow for crossing these private lands if there is public land to be accessed.
    I can't help being a lazy, dumb, weekend warrior.......I have a JOB!
    I have less friends now!!

  18. #18
    Member Marc Taylor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage, AK
    Posts
    1,279

    Default

    All that AND free healthcare?!

    Wow.

    Taylor

  19. #19
    New member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    20

    Default easements

    I would like to clarify some of the issues regarding the on-going discussion related towards the federal 17(b) easements. Although my duties are directly associated more with natural resource issues I have an understanding of how the process is intended to work, which is to allow continued public access to isolated public property.

    The intent of the BLM and Ahtna is to recognize previous access routes and to eliminate multiple easements to the same area. Since some of the easements were never field identified, or basically lines drawn on a map, the BLM is now attempting to gain input from the public as to where these easements may best benefit the users. Generally these easements range in width from 25'-50' and have different uses, i.e. snowmachine, ATV, dog sled, foot travel, vehicles greater than 3000#, etc., depending on previous or future uses. The easements are restricted to travel corridors from point A to point B and in some cases have parking areas and 1-acre camping sites on either end.

    The confusion seems to arise when users wish to travel outside of the easement or create a new route. In this case it would be considered a trespass however, for the individuals wishing to access an area not within a defined easement or for recreational use on Ahtna property, Ahtna will issue a land crossing/land use permit for an individual day ($10) individual season ($50) or family day ($30) family season ($75). These are issued for the entire calendar year.

    If you need further information you can visit our web site at ahtna-inc.com (general info) or http://ahtna.lands.googlepages.com/ for current maps/land ownership.

  20. #20
    Member Marc Taylor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage, AK
    Posts
    1,279

    Default

    Ahtna Corp. shareholders need to apply for an access permit to come to Anchorage and shop? Drive on my streets?

    I mean, my tax dollars do pay for these streets around here...

    Seems to me that what's public is public as long as it's not THEIR public that I'm using.

    Taylor

Page 1 of 6 123 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •