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Thread: Blackhawk convert. 45colt/45auto...

  1. #1

    Default Blackhawk convert. 45colt/45auto...

    How does the rimless 45auto work in a single action gun...I just can't picture how they fit in the cylinder without moon clips...?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oneriver View Post
    How does the rimless 45auto work in a single action gun...I just can't picture how they fit in the cylinder without moon clips...?

    Answer this question. How does it work in a semi-auto? The ACP uses its own cylinder, not the 45 Colt cylinder. It is really a good idea.

    Any rimless pistol round headspaces on the case mouth. The chamber dimensions are such that the case fit allows it to rest down on the mouth of the case. You do not need any half moon or full moon clips to use the 45 ACP in a revolver. In the double action S&W model 25 or 1950/1955 or the 1917 revolvers, the clips were used to facilitate extraction not to keep them from falling through the cylinder. Most donot know the reason for the infamous half moon clips.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



  3. #3

    Default Head space on the case mouth...Y of course...how

    simple...why didn't I think of that...thnx Murphy

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    Member Darreld Walton's Avatar
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    Default .45 ACP in 1917...

    They chamber and shoot just fine with or without the clips. As Murphy mentioned, they're to facilitate extraction, though most of the loads I tried through my 1917 Colt fell out when I tilted the cylinder back.
    I bought a pile of .45 Auto Rim brass, and they worked great in the Colt with an added bonus of being able to crimp with a regular crimp die, allowing a much larger choice of bullets and not having to worry about them moving around with the recoil.
    The Auto Rim brass won't, as I understand, work in the Blackhawk, not enough clearance between the back of the cylinder and the frame?.........

  5. #5

    Default I have never shot a revolver using rimless ammo

    and always thought moon clips had to be used..I have a 45colt and a 45 auto..I reload lots of the 45 auto so I thought a blackhawk in both calibers would be great to run 45 auto through...I know they have diff. bullet dia. and was wondering how accurate the gun would shoot both calibers...?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oneriver View Post
    and always thought moon clips had to be used..I have a 45colt and a 45 auto..I reload lots of the 45 auto so I thought a blackhawk in both calibers would be great to run 45 auto through...I know they have diff. bullet dia. and was wondering how accurate the gun would shoot both calibers...?

    Actually the 45 ACP, the 45 Rimmed, and the 45 Colt, 45 Winchester mag and the 454 Casull all use .452" diameter bullets. All cylinders are the same size throats and all barrels are same size also. The ACP round is very accurate in the 45 Colt caliber guns.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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    Default Moon clips in SA vs DA

    Quote Originally Posted by Oneriver View Post
    and always thought moon clips had to be used..I have a 45colt and a 45 auto..I reload lots of the 45 auto so I thought a blackhawk in both calibers would be great to run 45 auto through...I know they have diff. bullet dia. and was wondering how accurate the gun would shoot both calibers...?
    Oneriver,

    Single action revolvers don't use moon clips. Double action revolvers do use moon clips. SA revolvers use separate cylinders for the rimless ACP cartridges and rimmed cartridges. DA revolvers use the same cylinder for both.

    Typical single action revolvers (load one cartridge at a time) do not need moon clips of any kind. We won't talk about the rare SA revolvers with break open actions or swingout cylinders. They do not use the "rim" of the "rimless" ACP cartridge for either headspace or for extraction. They headspace by the case mouth resting on a shoulder in the chamber just like a semi-automatic pistol does, and extraction/ejection is done by the rod up through the middle of the cartridge. The shoulder in the chambers is why you have to have separate cylinders for 45ACP or 9mm from the 45 Colt/454 Casull or 38/357 cylinders.

    Double action revolvers COULD headspace on the case mouth, but ejection requires something that engages the rim to eject all cartridges at the same time. That's the moon clip's first job, ejection. The ejector star pushes the moon clip(s) out, taking the cartridges with it as a unit. Since the moon clip holds the cartridges firmly, the headspacing can be done by the clip, too, making the shoulder in the chamber unnecessary. Therefore no second cylinder is necessary.

    The only problem with making a 454 Casull/45 Colt convertible to 45 ACP in the same cylinder is that the thickness of the moon clip necessitates a relief cut machined into the face of the ejector star. Fortunately, there is enough metal left (after the relief cut) around the outer periphery of the cylinder to allow the rimmed cases to continue to headspace on the uncut part of the cylinder and the cartridge rim at the same time as the moonclipped catridges can headspace on the moon clip resting on the machined-out part. You could even mix them up if you put a half-moon clip with three of the "rimless" ACP cartridges and three of the rimmed cartridges in the other chambers.

    I hope that makes sense. It is kind of hard to explain without pictures and diagrams.

    Lost Sheep (Larry)

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